Salon #6d: We are now going to try something a bit different in order to try to generate more discussion among all of us.  I have divided the class into four sub-salons: a, b, c, d.  My e-mail to you today indicates which Salon you are in.   Two of the salons have 8 students in them, one has seven, and one has six (I want to get some idea of which size group might work the best).

Salon 6d has eight members.  They include:

Veronica Castelo

Sheila Morrison

In this Salon, I will offer some general guidelines for our "group" discussion on the Salon and will include some materials and ideas.   You must all respond by Wednesday, Nov. 4 and then you need to respond a second time by commenting on responses to 4 of the other members of your Salon group by Monday, Nov. 9th. (You can choose which four to respond to).

You have two on-going assignments from this past week:

(1) Viewing "Lonestar" and developing 3 questions based on that film: one on inter-ethnic, one on inter-gender, and one on intergenerational issues.  These 3 questions should be sent back to your sub-salon (6a or 6b or 6c or 6d--whichever one you have been assigned to).

(2) Those of you who have not yet done this, send me a short list of "hate mail" addresses on the Internet.  I'll get back to you on November 4th about what we will do with the Internet addresses.

Now for the third new assignment:

(3) Read the first three chapters of Wilson's: When Work Disappears and respond to the following 2 questions by Wednesday, Nov. 4th.

    a. What are the reasons Wilson offers as to why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities?

    b. How do "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other?

Be sure to send your responses to your sub-salon!

Enter your comments below (Don't forget to submit):

To view others' comments in this salon, scroll down this page. [Soc311--Inequality Home Page] [Return to Salon Menu] [CSU, San Marcos Sociology On-Line Courses] [CSU, San Marcos Sociology Homepage]

Salon #6 Responses  

Garrett garrett@... responded:

test 6d

Mon Nov 2 10:33:30 PST 1998

Jill Gustus gustu001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Here are my three questions: 1.(Inter-ethnic): Are the feelings or perception of the African American female private towards the United States Army racist? 2.(Inter-generation): Are African Americans from Otis' generation given the same chances in life as the ones from his son, the colonel's generation? 3.(Inter-gender): If mercedes was a man, do you think she would have been approved for a loan from the bank to start her business, rather than having to take the money offered by Buddy? Answer to the 2 questions: A. The reasons given by Wilson for why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities are: 1. Most of the jobs that are available today are the jobs that require training or skill (the age of technology). The neighborhoods that are in need of jobs are full of people who don't have the required skill or training and they don't seem to have a way of obtaining it. Education just doesn't seem to be a possibility. 2. The neighborhoods that are in need of jobs are ones where businesses won't go because of the violence and drugs. This in turn causes these neighborhoods to depend more on violence and drugs for survival, which keeps them from ever getting out of this circular hell that was created out of the necessity for a basic existence. 3. No or little skill required jobs are too far away for people to get to and there is also the issue of childcare, it is too expensive. 4. The odds seem to be against these neighborhoods. There seems to be no way out. Most just give up and give into the element, creating more violence and drugs. B. "Ghetto-related behavior" has to do with violence and drugs, which is what people depend on when there are no jobs available. The "structure of opportunity" has to do with the fact that there are no jobs available in poverty-stricken neighborhoods. These theories have a circular effect. When there are no jobs, people rely on ghetto-related behavior for money. When they do that, it just ruins the neighborhoods even more. Which drives out the businesses that are left, taking what jobs are left, leaving none. These people are then forced more to rely on drugs and violence for survival. Kids lose good role models. They think they need to be like the drug dealers to survive. They see how easy it is for them to get money. So they follow in their footsteps and never get out. Kids then don't care about school and never go. They end up believing that education isn't necessary in life, that it is a waste of time. This whole situation becomes an end-less circle, they don't see how to get out of the hell that they are stuck in and give up trying. They accept their life. They believe that there is no other way.

Wed Nov 4 11:03:14 PST 1998

Therese Baker tbaker@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Dear Section 6a: PLEASE RESPOND BACK TO THIS BY MONDAY, NOV. 9 SALON 7 WILL BE POSTED ON NOV. 10 -- MEANWHILE READ THE REST OF THE WILSON BOOK In this second phase of this salon,(1)please select two questions on Lonestar from two different students in your section and respond to them on the basis of what you learned from the film. (YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.) (2) How do two of the other section members explain the link between "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity". Do these agree with how you have explained this link, if no, how does your interpretation differ? YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.)

Wed Nov 4 20:42:09 PST 1998

Sarah Dyroff Sdky7 responded:

1. (Inter-ethnic)Is Charlie Wade racist or is he just "in general" cold and cruel to everyone? 2. (Inter-generation) Are the problems between Otis and his son because they both seem to be of the same type personality (stubborn,pride) or is it more due to how father's related to their son's in his time, and the son living a life of strict rules & regs that tend to discourage warmth & close affection? 3. (Inter-gender) Was Sgt. Cliff easier on the female private because of her gender, or was it more the he seems to have a softer view on life than his counterparts? 3rd Assignment - a. Jobs are scarce, friends & neighbors do not have the chance to help each other out, and children are not properly prepared in school to enter the work force. Eventually they loose the feeling that they should even be included in the work force, sothey do not see themselves as regular full time employees. Children may grow up in an environment where work is not a main focus of adult life so they become unattached to the labor force. Eventurlly illegitimate means of income are seen as a way of life for them. b. A weak labor force consisting of economic constraints & restricted opportunity eventually create a feeling of self-efficacy. There is a sense of doubt that achievements can even be made. Those who do manage to hold onto their confidence eventually give up believing that their efforts will never be appreciated in an environment so hostile.Those who make it out to a somewhat better area have feelings of low capability directly due to growing up in poverty. Motivation is difficult to maintain to constantly struggle just to survive.

Wed Nov 4 21:54:22 PST 1998

Jim Currey curreys@mailhost2.csusm.edu responded:

After watching this movie I thought that there were an endless number of issues between so many characters. Some were obvious and some were not so obvious. I came up with these questions. Interethnic--Buddy Deeds and the Mexican people: Was there any real difference between Buddy and Charlie Wade? The only real difference was that Buddy did not physically harm anyone. Was he not just as manipulating (not as subtle as Charlie) and dominating? Intergender--Pilar and Sam: What a strange relationship! How could Pilar have a relationship with a man who neglected her for such a long period of time? He didn't even talk to her after moving back to town, even two years after her husband was killed. Was he a manipulator like his Dad? Now for the easy one. Intergenerational--Sam and Buddy Deeds: This is one that I can relate to. Since there are no other males in this group, maybe I can get a different perspective from the female side. Why does Sam try so hard to be like his Dad and then realize that he does not want to be like him a all? Is it that we think that our Dads are heroes until we are old enough to think for ourselves and start to disagree with them and find out that they are just flesh and bone like everyone else. (Please don't read too much in this and try to psychoanalyze me!) Wilson-Question 1. Most importantly economics is the issue. The loss of blue collar jobs due to industrial restructuring. (farming out manufacturing overseas) The innercities were the bases of manufacturing. The losses of large factories and plants also triggered losses of small business and support jobs. As the social situation worsened people fell into the poverty trap the areas became decimated and no companies were willing to invest there. The people with higher educations and technical skills left the innercities and headed to the suburbs. Wilson says that "concentrated poverty is positively associated with joblessness...when the former appears the latter is found...." Poor people tend to have a harder job finding jobs. Wilson-Question 2. "Ghetto related behavior" is directly related to lack of opportunity. This behavior is more of an attitude. This attitude is justified by the people in the community. Welfare and aid is part of the socioeconomic structure of the ghetto. There is not an effective networking system that can be used by these people to help themselves out of their situation. These people are full of self-doubt and because they can't see a way out they have no reason to believe that their is any opportunity for them. Many of them fall into the trap of joblessness and crime, selling drugs and hanging out.

Wed Nov 4 22:55:51 PST 1998

Veronica Castelo vcastelo01@aol.com responded:

3.) There are a number of reasons as to why there are few employment opportunities in certain areas (mainly the ghetto areas). For one, there are limited opportunities for those people who do not have an advanced education, such as collegiate and/or trade school experiences. Because of the technological age that we live in, it is almost necessary that people receive an advanced education in order to acquire a descent job within the work force. Secondly, due to the fact that many business owners and operators are reluctant to set up shop in areas where employment rates are low, many areas lose out on opportunities for employment within their geographical area because all of the businesses move out to city. In addition, because the concentration of unemployed individuals come from the less educated class of individuals, children grow up thinking and learning that both education and employment are not important factors in life because of what they see going on in and around their lives. If children see that their family members, friends, etc. are not working and not going to school, then they end up believing that they should follow in those exact footsteps. This process tends to become very cyclical and never-ending. Because poor people have a harder time finding employment in and around their area, they have to make the effort and enter the city for work. Many times these individuals become frustrated with certain factors such as; the commute to work, lack of daycare, and not enough money to make it to work. As a result, these people begin to fall back and forget about eventually forget about working. When this happens, we see the same people living in these areas, and many of them still remain without jobs; thus creating an environment where employment will never go up, and people will continue to remain in the same situations; poor and unemployed. B) What "ghetto-related behavior" seems to address are the factors that pertain to the types of crimes and attitudes that people living in the ghetto seem to possess. The structure of opportunity affects ghetto related behavior in the sense that there are, and will never be, opportunities that arise for people who are involved in ghetto related behaviors because of the fact that many people who are involved in ghetto related behaviors do not believe in ethics. For example, they believe in stealing and selling drugs rather than finding a "real" job. When people in the ghetto have a hard time finding employment, they find a real problem with not having any money, and as a result they go to vast illegitimate means to get some. In turn, businesses, residents, and the like ,tend to move elsewhere for business which leaves no business and jobs in the ghetto area, leaving for even less employment opportunities, and then the cycle begins all over again.

Wed Nov 4 22:56:06 PST 1998

Veronica Castelo vcastelo01@aol.com responded:

3.) There are a number of reasons as to why there are few employment opportunities in certain areas (mainly the ghetto areas). For one, there are limited opportunities for those people who do not have an advanced education, such as collegiate and/or trade school experiences. Because of the technological age that we live in, it is almost necessary that people receive an advanced education in order to acquire a descent job within the work force. Secondly, due to the fact that many business owners and operators are reluctant to set up shop in areas where employment rates are low, many areas lose out on opportunities for employment within their geographical area because all of the businesses move out to city. In addition, because the concentration of unemployed individuals come from the less educated class of individuals, children grow up thinking and learning that both education and employment are not important factors in life because of what they see going on in and around their lives. If children see that their family members, friends, etc. are not working and not going to school, then they end up believing that they should follow in those exact footsteps. This process tends to become very cyclical and never-ending. Because poor people have a harder time finding employment in and around their area, they have to make the effort and enter the city for work. Many times these individuals become frustrated with certain factors such as; the commute to work, lack of daycare, and not enough money to make it to work. As a result, these people begin to fall back and forget about eventually forget about working. When this happens, we see the same people living in these areas, and many of them still remain without jobs; thus creating an environment where employment will never go up, and people will continue to remain in the same situations; poor and unemployed. B) What "ghetto-related behavior" seems to address are the factors that pertain to the types of crimes and attitudes that people living in the ghetto seem to possess. The structure of opportunity affects ghetto related behavior in the sense that there are, and will never be, opportunities that arise for people who are involved in ghetto related behaviors because of the fact that many people who are involved in ghetto related behaviors do not believe in ethics. For example, they believe in stealing and selling drugs rather than finding a "real" job. When people in the ghetto have a hard time finding employment, they find a real problem with not having any money, and as a result they go to vast illegitimate means to get some. In turn, businesses, residents, and the like ,tend to move elsewhere for business which leaves no business and jobs in the ghetto area, leaving for even less employment opportunities, and then the cycle begins all over again.

Wed Nov 4 23:01:46 PST 1998

Ledia Flores lediaflor@hotmail.com responded:

Questions: 1) Inter-generational: Is Mercedes so judgmental and disapproving of Pilar's life choices because of differences in generations or is it due to something else? 2) Inter-ethnic: Is the "de-markation" that the bartender mentions due to the lack of acceptance/tolerance between the various ethnic groups or could it be just the result of the wrong-doings of Big Charlie and Boddie Deeds? 3) Inter-gender: Could the way Mercedes has been treated by the the town's big boys be due to the fact that she is a woman or could it be due to her involvement with Bodie Deeds? a): According to Wilson, some of the reasons why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities is due to problems of economic advancemente like job ladders having been erroded because now most jobs require more skills which those individuals in poor neighborhoods do not possess, and so more less-skilled workers stagnate in dead-end, low-paying positions; due to a drop in real wages which have been adjusted to the inflation that our economy is experiencing; due to blue-collar factory, transportation, and construction jobs that have not kept pace with the rise in the working-age population; due to the removal of jobs from urban centers to suburban areas, where transportation, length of commuting time, and travel expense are far too great for those individuals who live in the urban areas to bear; and also due to technological changes in the workplace which require that workers possess certain skills which individuals from the urban areas do not have because that requires having to obtain education and these individuals do not have the money nor the motivation to obtain them. b): According to Wilson, the "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" are very closely related. Those individuals who live in the ghetto lack opportunities and dequate job information networks, and their neighbohoods do not have effective schools that can proportion them with the required education; therefore, there is a total lack of good role models. Instead the children have as their role models individuals our society views as "undesirable." Children can only aspire to become pimps, dope dealers, prostitutes, robbers, etc. because those are the only role models they have. Kids end up finding the "easy routes" and becoming conditioned over a period of time to just "work less." They do not care for an education, and they come to view the drug industry and other undesirable activities as the best way to get ahead in life. Due to the lack of opportunity "ghetto-related behavior" is encouraged and in turn there is a total lack of desire to build any "structure of opportunity." Furthermore, he says that even those individuals who may lead decent lives in these neighborhoods end up choosing social isolation when they feel helpless and hopeless due to the crime around them; they too withdraw from involvement in voluntary association and social networks that could have lead to prospective employment. It is a vicious cycle.

Wed Nov 4 23:05:54 PST 1998

sheila morrison cdckidzmom@aol.com responded:

Lonestar: (Inter-racial) In this movie it became clear that attitudes regarding inter-racial relationships were changing. What are some examples of this? (Inter-generational) How were the relationships between the Colonel and his son similar to the relationship between Buddy Deeds and his son Sam? (Inter-gender) Would the Army officer have been as lenient to the enlisted woman had she been a man in the same situation? Now to answer the Wilson questions. 1)Wilson states many reasons why certain neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities. Changes in the distribution of jobs, the fact that more jobs now require higher levels of education, and the decline in low-skilled jobs make it more difficult for residents in ghetto environments to get and hold jobs. These same neighborhoods are plagued with a mass exodus of businesses, lack of formal employment networks, and less positive roll models. All of these things combined in one neighborhood make it almost impossible for residents to acquire and hold a decent job. 2) "Ghetto-related behavior" and "Structure of opportunity" have a symbiotic relationship. In reading Wilson's book it becomes clear that the lack of opportunity experienced by those living in the Ghetto neighborhoods perpetuate Ghetto-related behaviors. This in turn limits there opportunities. In neighborhoods where there are few job opportunities, poor schooling, and little or no job training the majority of residents do not have stable jobs. When there are few people who are gainfully employed to set a standard in a community, people start seeing unemployment or illegitimate employment as the norm and quit striving for the former. The relationship between "Ghetto-related behavior" and "Structure of opportunity" appears to be circular, one perpetuating the other.

Thu Nov 5 10:13:23 PST 1998

Veronica Castelo vcastelo01@aol.com responded:

Oops! I forgot to post the three lonestar questions last night, here they are: 1.) (Inter-ethnic). Why is it that Mercedes insists on making everyone around her speak the English language, even if they feel more comfortable speaking Spanish? Also, why is it that Mercedes is trying so hard to be American? Do you think that Mercedes is ashamed to belong to her Hispanic culture, if so why or why not? 2.) (Inter-generational) Why is is that Otis and the Colonel (his son) have different issues and opinions pertaining to the raising and disciplining of the Colonels son? Could it be because both father and son (Otis and the Colonel) come from different generations? Explain. 3.) (Inter-gender). Do you think that the Colonel would have been less understanding if the young girl (who was caught with drugs in her urine) would have been a man? Do you think that she got off a lot easier because she was a girl and not a guy, which is why the Colonel never held her up to the punishment that she was supposed to get in the first place?

Fri Nov 6 17:31:34 PST 1998

Jill Gustus gustu001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Answer to Sarah Dyroff's questions: 1. I believe that Charlie Wade was both. He believed that he was better than everyone else and that he could treat people however he wanted to. Charlie Wade acted like he owned that town just because he was white and the sheriff. 2. The son has animosity toward Otis because he is disappointed and angry with his father for not being there when he was growing up. And because they both have the same type of personality in that they are both stubborn and full of pride, they find it hard to break down the wall that is before them. They don't know how or if they want that wall torn down. 3. I think Sgt. Cliff was easier on the female private because he has a softer view on life. He knows how hard life can be so he gives her a break but not without warning about the next time. Answers to Jim Currey's questions: 1. I believe there was only one difference between Charlie and Buddy. Buddy actually cared about others. Charlie only cared about himself. 2. I don't think Sam knew how to approach Pilar. He still loved her but didn't know what to do about it. He probably thought she was better off without him. 3. (I agree totally) All kids look up to their parents. They think of them as flawless because they are naïve. Being so young, they don't realize that everyone has their faults and problems, that parents aren't perfect. Sam didn't know this till he learned about his father's faults. (So then he changed his mind) 2) I looked at Veronica Castelo and Sheila Morrison's explanations. They both seem to explain it the same way I did. We basically stated that Structure of Opportunity and Ghetto-related Behavior effect each other, when there is a lack of job opportunity, people then rely on Ghetto-related Behaviors to survive.

Sun Nov 8 19:44:38 PST 1998

sheila morrison cdckidzmom@aol.com responded:

Answer to Ledia's question: Is Pilar so judgmental about Mercedes life because of a generation gap? Being a parent myself, I feel that most if not all parents are judgmental about their children because they want their children to have a better life than they did and they don't want their children to make the same mistakes they did. In Pilar's case she had been hurt by having a relationship with a white boy and she didn't want Mercedes to suffer the same pain. Secondly, Pilar basically denounced her Hispanic culture and Mercedes embraced hers. Pilar had made great efforts to come to the U.S. and she wanted to be accepted whereas Mercedes had been born an American citizen so she did not feel the need to denounce her heritage. To answer Jill's question; would Mercedes have been able to get a loan from the bank if she was a man? If Mercedes had been a man (Preferably a white man) she would have been much more likely to have been given a loan. It is ironic how the fact that she was a minority woman would be to her advantage today. Minority women attempting to start a business today are given all kinds of opportunities in low cost loans and incentive programs. In answer to Sarah's questions. The problems between Otis and his son are based on many things. Due to the fact that the Colonel's parents were divorced Otis was never able to develop any kind of relationship with his son. It also seemed that Otis never sustained any relationship for very long, he obviously loved his son but had some interpersonal issues. Also, part of it probably had to do with the time frame. In those days fathers didn't take a very active role in nurturing their children, that was left to the mothers. In answer to her question about why the Sgt. was easier on the female private: I feel that he was easier on her because she was female but it seemed that he felt she was trying to make a better life for herself and he wanted to give her the opportunity to do so. Now for part 2. I had to disagree with Veronica when she states that "many people who are involved with ghetto related behaviors do not believe in ethics." I'm sure that is true for some people in that category as well as some people in the general population. There are many upstanding (I use this term lightly) citizens who commit white collar crimes who have not an ethical bone in their body. I feel that many people who are involved in ghetto related behavior believe that what they are doing is wrong. However, they feel they have no other choices. I am a very ethical person, but I would steal in a minute if my children were hungry. I may even resort to using drugs, to numb the pain, if both of my children had been killed by a drive by shooting. It is even possible that I would become a prostitute to make enough money to get my family out of a neighborhood where they had to sleep in the bathtub to avoid the bullets that often flew through our windows. So I guess it's obvious I don't agree that ghetto behavior and lack of ethics go hand in hand. I do however agree with Ledia that due to the fact that people who live in the ghetto neighborhoods lack opportunities, have ineffective schools, and lack good role models they tend to perpetuate the cycle. However, I disagree that children only aspire to become pimps, dope dealers, prostitutes, etc.. I think that children in the ghetto often aspire to much more however they are repeatedly repressed and stereotyped and in effect they become a society induced self-fulfilling prophecy. Okay I think I am done. Sorry I just get a bit involved with this subject.

Mon Nov 9 11:35:52 PST 1998

Jim Currey curreys@mailhost2.csusm.edu responded:

To answer Sheila's question on inter-racial relationships. Two examples of changing relationships are a white Army officer wanting to marry a black enlisted women. He was willing to give up his career (two years left before retirement) for the love of this woman. The other example was Pilar and Sam. I don't think that race was ever an issue between them. At the end of the movie I thought that having the same father was an issue! Apparently love was all that mattered to them. To answer her intergender question. I think that the Colonel was re-evaluating his own life at the time that the young woman failed her drug test. If she were a man he may have given him another chance. The Colonel felt that nobody had helped him and he was a prime example of someone "pulling himself up by the bootstraps." It was time that he considered other alternatives besides his own views. Just as he decided that his son could have his own life also. A question that I have would be would he have helped this woman if she were white? Jill's question on interethnic. Her feelings are most definitely rascist. She thinks that being in the Army is working for the "MAN", the white man. If she follows the rules nothing will happen to her. She doesn't have a desire or ambition to do a better job for herself or her fellow soldiers. Her Army career is just a "job" and it's better than being in the ghetto. Intergender. THere is no way that Mercedes, a female Hispanic would have ever gotten a loan. Now, she would be one of the top priorities for a business loan; a minority female. I agree with Veronica and Sheila that the link between "ghetto related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" being a cycle and that they perpetuate each other. A comment on Sheila's response. Since, I assume that none of us has lived in this type of situation, Sheila has stated what she could possibly do if she were in that situation maybe we should think about what each of us might do. We might also take extreme measures to survive.

Mon Nov 9 22:44:30 PST 1998

Ledia Flores lediaflor@hotmail.com responded:

(1) In response to Veronica's question regarding Mercedes trying very hard to be an American, I can only say that obviously the woman tries very hard to forget her identity as a Hispanic. We can see that she doesn't want Spanish spoken in her presence nor does she want to back home to visit relatives. For whatever reason, she doesn't want her roots. She desperately clinging, if you will, to the notion of the "American dream" and identity. She doesn't want her background to be part of that identity because she views Hispanics (specially those who crossed the river like she had done herself) as inferior people. Although the movie does not show what kind of relationship she had with Buddy Deeds, knowing what we know about him we can suspect that he had great influence on her way of thinking. She was really young when she had an affair with him and so it was easier for him to brainwash her and to make her ashame of who she was. In response to Jim's question regarding Sam neglecting Pilar, I would like to say that I do not see neglect in this situation. These two individuals had had a relationship twenty years earlier. They went their separate ways and it appeared they did not owe each other an explanation. If Sam did not approach her before, he must have had his reasons. He probably had not found the opportunity nor the appropriate time until he saw her at the police station. Was he a manipulator? I do not think so. I believe he was a good individual who had the unfortunate experience of being Buddy's son. And, what about his ex-wife? I felt really sorry for him when watching that scene with her. She was definately a messed up woman. After such experiences, he was lucky to still have his sanity. (2) I do not agree with Veronica who believes that the reason there are no employment opportunities in ghetto neighborhoods is because those who live there lack ethics. I think that they lack work because of a lack of opportunity. Because of a lack of opportunity, they turn to crime. It is not like if they have been offered a job and they turn it down to choose a life of crime (of course this does not apply to every single one of those individuals). What I think Wilson is trying to say is that the lack of "structure of opportunity" is what encourages "ghetto-related behavior." If anything, this behavior causes or creates a lack of desire to build any "structure of opportunity" and this is because people have given up on themselves. It appears that Sheila's response agree with my explanation of this link. She says that the lack of opportunity is what causes a perpetuation of ghetto-related behaviors.

Tue Nov 10 12:24:27 PST 1998

veronica castelo vcastelo01@aol.com responded:

PART 1: Answer to Jill Gustus: 2.) I think that the Colonel had more opportunities than Otis did. Otis grew up in a generation where there was a lot of hate towards the African American community. He grew up in a time where opportunities were limited to those who did not have white skin color. The Colonel grew up in a generation where things were a little bit different. The colonel had opportunities to advance, which is why he became such an authoritative figure in the Army. Every generation goes through changes, there is not one generation that is the same as its predecessor, things change with time. 3.) I think that if Mercedes was a white man she would have been given the loan from the bank. I think that the community where Mercedes lived in thought of women as less responsible, which is probably the reason why she was denied the loan. Being of white skin color held prestige in that town, there was a lot of animosity geared towards the Mexicans because alarge population of them crossed the borders illegally. I think that being Mexican in that society was something that was looked down upon by the white man, and for this reason, I think that Mercedes was denied her loan. Answer to Sara Dyroff's questions 1.) I think that Charlie Wade was both a racist and cruel to everyone. Charlie Wade was pretty much rude to everyone, he thought that just because he was a white sheriff that he was themost authoritative figure around. He thought that he could get away with anything and everything, and he pretty much did. He was also very rasict towards the African American community, in the sense that he tried to control their actions and tried to tell them how to live their lives. A perfect example was when Wade and his partner went to Otis' bar and sat at the table. Wade made everyone in that bar feel very uncomfortable, he was very rude to Otis, his family, and the guests at the club. During this time, Wade was being rude to these people not because he was in a bad mood, but because he was black. 2.) I think that the problems between Otis and The Colonel stem from the fact the Otis was never around when the colonel was growing up. The colonel had a lot of bottled up emotions on the subject. He was upset because his father was not around, and because of that, he was reserved is establishing a relationship with him when he was older. I think that they are both stubborn. It seems as though they both wanted to continue a relationship with one another, but at the same time, they had a lot of questions and reservations about the past which held them back. PART 2: I have to agree with what Shiela said about "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" in the sense that they re cyclical. In addition to this, I would like to add that I agree with her comment on what I answered to this question. I said that people in the ghetto lack ethics. Although this may not be true for some people, it might br true for others. What got my attention was when she began talking about what she would do in order to support her children if she were living in that type of environment. I never really looked at it in that persepective, as I am sure a lot of haven't. What she did was put herself in the position of someone living in the ghetto, and actually thought about what she would do in that type of situation. I have to disregard part of what I said earlier, and agree with her. I also agree with what Jill said about these factors being held up in a cyclical cycle. She discussed pretty much the same things that I said in my paper. I thought she was right on the money. When people see that their peers and role models are unemployed, drug dealers, and thieves, they want to become like them. They see what is surrounding them and they don't know any better than to follow in the same footsteps as their friends, family members, etc.

Tue Nov 10 12:25:11 PST 1998

veronica castelo vcastelo01@aol.com responded:

PART 1: Answer to Jill Gustus: 2.) I think that the Colonel had more opportunities than Otis did. Otis grew up in a generation where there was a lot of hate towards the African American community. He grew up in a time where opportunities were limited to those who did not have white skin color. The Colonel grew up in a generation where things were a little bit different. The colonel had opportunities to advance, which is why he became such an authoritative figure in the Army. Every generation goes through changes, there is not one generation that is the same as its predecessor, things change with time. 3.) I think that if Mercedes was a white man she would have been given the loan from the bank. I think that the community where Mercedes lived in thought of women as less responsible, which is probably the reason why she was denied the loan. Being of white skin color held prestige in that town, there was a lot of animosity geared towards the Mexicans because alarge population of them crossed the borders illegally. I think that being Mexican in that society was something that was looked down upon by the white man, and for this reason, I think that Mercedes was denied her loan. Answer to Sara Dyroff's questions 1.) I think that Charlie Wade was both a racist and cruel to everyone. Charlie Wade was pretty much rude to everyone, he thought that just because he was a white sheriff that he was themost authoritative figure around. He thought that he could get away with anything and everything, and he pretty much did. He was also very rasict towards the African American community, in the sense that he tried to control their actions and tried to tell them how to live their lives. A perfect example was when Wade and his partner went to Otis' bar and sat at the table. Wade made everyone in that bar feel very uncomfortable, he was very rude to Otis, his family, and the guests at the club. During this time, Wade was being rude to these people not because he was in a bad mood, but because he was black. 2.) I think that the problems between Otis and The Colonel stem from the fact the Otis was never around when the colonel was growing up. The colonel had a lot of bottled up emotions on the subject. He was upset because his father was not around, and because of that, he was reserved is establishing a relationship with him when he was older. I think that they are both stubborn. It seems as though they both wanted to continue a relationship with one another, but at the same time, they had a lot of questions and reservations about the past which held them back. PART 2: I have to agree with what Shiela said about "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" in the sense that they re cyclical. In addition to this, I would like to add that I agree with her comment on what I answered to this question. I said that people in the ghetto lack ethics. Although this may not be true for some people, it might br true for others. What got my attention was when she began talking about what she would do in order to support her children if she were living in that type of environment. I never really looked at it in that persepective, as I am sure a lot of haven't. What she did was put herself in the position of someone living in the ghetto, and actually thought about what she would do in that type of situation. I have to disregard part of what I said earlier, and agree with her. I also agree with what Jill said about these factors being held up in a cyclical cycle. She discussed pretty much the same things that I said in my paper. I thought she was right on the money. When people see that their peers and role models are unemployed, drug dealers, and thieves, they want to become like them. They see what is surrounding them and they don't know any better than to follow in the same footsteps as their friends, family members, etc.

Thu Nov 12 19:50:02 PST 1998

Sarah Dyroff Sdky7 responded:

1. Jim Currey-Intergender:No, I don't think Sam was a manipulator like his dad was. Sam didn't neglect Pilar. Pilar married & made a life for herself. Why should it be up to Sam to continue something from so many years ago? I think he was afraid of rejection, & so was Pilar. 2nd response:Sam & Buddy Deeds: Yes, I think that most children look up to their parents & they try to be like them. However, I don't know if we start to see them as "flesh & bone" & loose that. I think that because the generations are so different & society as a whole goes through so many changes, it is natural for children to have different ideas & views on life than that of their parents. 2. Veronica Castelo: I agree with your views on "ghetto related behavior" & the "structure of opportunity". It is like a "circular hell" and they are stuck in an environment that doesn't leave much room for creative ideas or the education to lead them out of it.