Salon #6c: We are now going to try something a bit different in order to try to generate more discussion among all of us.  I have divided the class into four sub-salons: a, b, c, d.  My e-mail to you today indicates which Salon you are in.   Two of the salons have 8 students in them, one has seven, and one has six (I want to get some idea of which size group might work the best).

Salon 6c has eight members.  They include:

Daniel Brown

Michael Ware

In this Salon, I will offer some general guidelines for our "group" discussion on the Salon and will include some materials and ideas.   You must all respond by Wednesday, Nov. 4 and then you need to respond a second time by commenting on responses to 4 of the other members of your Salon group by Monday, Nov. 9th. (You can choose which four to respond to).

You have two on-going assignments from this past week:

(1) Viewing "Lonestar" and developing 3 questions based on that film: one on inter-ethnic, one on inter-gender, and one on intergenerational issues.  These 3 questions should be sent back to your sub-salon (6a or 6b or 6c or 6d--whichever one you have been assigned to).

(2) Those of you who have not yet done this, send me a short list of "hate mail" addresses on the Internet.  I'll get back to you on November 4th about what we will do with the Internet addresses.

Now for the third new assignment:

(3) Read the first three chapters of Wilson's: When Work Disappears and respond to the following 2 questions by Wednesday, Nov. 4th.

    a. What are the reasons Wilson offers as to why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities?

    b. How do "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other?

Be sure to send your responses to your sub-salon!

Enter your comments below (Don't forget to submit):

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Salon #6 Responses  

Garrett garrett@... responded:

test 6c

Tue Nov 3 15:30:50 PST 1998

Rita Danskin lakegrove@aol.com responded:

Hi C! First the 3 questions on Lonestar.
Inter-Ethnic: Was Mercedes racist or was she simply try to protect the illegals from getting murdered like her husband?
Inter-Generational: Because Del wanted so much for his son to follow in his footsteps and go to West Point, do you think he may have been nearly as "unavailable" to his son as "O" was to him?
Inter-Gender: Why did Priscilla (the Army officer) believe she had to be so tough on the young recruit for her drug infraction? Is it for the same reason she believed she couldn't get married and remain in the military? And wny couldn't she accept the fact that her boyfriend (I forgot his name) was willing to follow her to a new post?
Response to Questions on the Wilson Book
The reasons Wilson offers as to why some neighborhoods have few legimiate employment opportunities include:
- the industrial shift away from manufacturing and the decline in other high-wage blue collar jobs, along with a reduction in the quality of second jobs;
- in the manufacturing companies that remain, occupational staffing has changed so that more formal education is required to fill the jobs;
- big employers are moving out of the urban neighborhoods and into the suburbs because of cheap land, access to freeways, and low crime rates;
- new companies rarely consider buying land in the city because they would have to buy a large piece of land which often requires dealing with several land owners, paying for demolition of existing buildings, construction of new buildings, and arranging for parking on very expensive city land; - many small businesses were forced out of Chicago neighborhoods by insurance companies after the riots of 1968; - federal government policies including red lining, urban renewal, and construction of freeways through cities break up neighborhoods; and - lack of federal action to fight the segregation that was rampant throughout the U.S.
Ghetto-related behavior and the structure of opportunity affects each other in the following ways:
An unemployed family who lives in an an area of other unemployed families is much more at risk of ghetto-related behavior, because "...unemployment leads to apathy." (73)
I believe a structure of opportunity would include good role models, a good education, and a community infrastructure set up to take care of transportation, day care, health care, social interaction, etc. Areas in poverty rarely offer any of these opportunities and so getting a job must include more than finding someone who will pay you to do a job. The first hurdle is having the motivation to be gainfully employed. As I mentioned earlier, that is difficult when you live in an area where no one is employed. Next you need a good education, which is one of the main problems of poverty areas--poor schools. If after all this, you DO find employment, it will usually be a low-skill job that offers no fringe benefits. Worst of all there is always the threat of dismissal because you have no security in the job. The example of the man on page 68 is an excellent example. He had to borrow money to get a tooth extracted, but couldn't afford pain killers--nor could he risk taking even one night off work. If he missed one night, he would probably be replaced. In addition, because the pay in these jobs is so low, people must work over-time, or a second or third job which means there is no time left for school and studying for a better paying job. Many people become demoralized, quit, and go back to drugs, and crime, and whatever else they can do to make a living; others won't go the drug route, but they become so depressed they just come home from work and cry. A poverty-stricken ghetto is not designed to be gotten out of.

Wed Nov 4 11:02:05 PST 1998

Therese Baker tbaker@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Dear Section 6a: PLEASE RESPOND BACK TO THIS BY MONDAY, NOV. 9 SALON 7 WILL BE POSTED ON NOV. 10 -- MEANWHILE READ THE REST OF THE WILSON BOOK In this second phase of this salon,(1)please select two questions on Lonestar from two different students in your section and respond to them on the basis of what you learned from the film. (YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.) (2) How do two of the other section members explain the link between "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity". Do these agree with how you have explained this link, if no, how does your interpretation differ? YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.)

Wed Nov 4 17:59:04 PST 1998

Anne Chambers chamb012@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Lonestar questions: 1) Why did Mercedes Cruz deny her heritage and demand that only English be spoken and also call INS on illegal aliens? 2) Col. Payne lets the female private off with a warning. What did she say or do to soften his "hard-line" with her? 3) The female sergeant was extremely tough on the female private. Was this because she wanted to help her or was she just asserting her authority? In "When Work Disappears," Wilson says that low levels of social organization contribute to joblessness. When social organization is low, there is no cohesiveness in the community. Violence, drug-abusers, drop-out rates all rise. People lose their sense of community. If the people in the neighborhood don't care, what sense would it make for an employer to spend dollars in that neighborhood? Also blue-collar skilled jobs (formerly highly prevalent in low-income neighborhoods) have declined due to high-tech industries. Ghetto-related behavior is behavior that perpetuates joblessness. the children see the flashy drug pushers and decide to take the easy route out. Sometimes they feel that is the only way out. Because of this behavior, the social organization breaks down thus thare are fewer job opportunities. This also leads to social isolation. People in ghettos are less likely to talk to college-educated people in a position that may help them find jobs. There are few positive role models for children to look upon for guidance. Many end up saying there are many obstacles to get to jobs and so they don't work instead of trying to find how to get help to overcome these obstacles. Many times there is no way around them, but sometimes the obstacles are self-made.

Wed Nov 4 22:14:02 PST 1998

Katherine Kelleher kelle018@csusm.edu responded:

Lonestar...Inter-ethnic. The skull is discovered in the desert and Sheriff Sam Deeds sets out to solve the mystery of who the victim is and whether a crime has been committed. In the scene where Sheriff Sam enters the restaurant, he and three other white men start a discourse. They critically summarize that nineteen out of twenty people in the town are Mexican and that all the street names are of Spanish origin. If some of these men were not in positions of power and were discussing these matters around gang members in Chicano Park, how would the plot of the movie change? 2) Inter-gender. When Sheriff Sam Deeds pays his ex-wife a short visit, he says to her three times, "You look good, Bunny." He does not show true interest in her, in fact, he has nothing better to ask her than if she's still taking medication and setting fires. Let us consider what would happen if the roles were reversed. Do you think Sam would feel accredited if Sheriff Bunny Deeds told him three times in two minutes, "You look good, Sam"? 3) Inter-generational. Buddy Deeds is remembered by many in Rio County as a good sheriff. Otis Payne's wife, a black business woman, comments "Buddy always kept his word". Yet, as the story unfolds, one of the Hispanic members of the community informs Sheriff Sam Deeds that Buddy was not the saint he appeared to be. Apparently, Lake Pescadero was dammed up in 1963. As a result, Mexicans and Chicanos who had lived in Perdido for over a hundred years were cruelly evicted and deported by Sheriff Buddy Deeds and his department staff. Buddy Deeds and Deputy Hollis end up with lake-front property and pay only a fraction of the cost for the land. Mexican families are torn apart and Sheriff Buddy proceeds to live out a comfortable life on their former land. Otis Payne, a well-liked black businessman in the community is also thought of as a great guy especially among his neighbors. He has a charming smile, gives out free drinks, and sees that people have a good time in his establishment. It appears that both Sheriff Buddy Deeds and Otis Payne have good reputations among those with limited knowledge of their characters. Why do the sons of both of these distinguished men seem so ready to uncover the truth about their fathers?

Wed Nov 4 22:47:57 PST 1998

Julie Schmidt juls@ix.netcom.com responded:

Lonestar questions: 1) What three ethnic groups were represented in the movie, and which two seemed to have the most conflict with each other? 2) Why do you think Mercedes denied her Mexican heritage and treated the younger Mexican immigrants so poorly, always reminding them "Speak English you're in America!"? 3) Who did it seem Charlie Wade picked on the most, his peers or those younger than him? Wilson Book: A)Some reasons Wilson offers as to why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities are; 1) the sharp decline in industry in certain neighborhoods due to crime, poverty and drugs. "The more rapid the neighborhood deterioration, the greater the institutional disinvestment. 2) Low levels of social organization. 3) Racial segregation. 4) The decline in the fortunes of low-skilled workers. 5) The decline in the mass production system in the U.S. 6) Industrial shifts away from manufacturing toward other sectors (deindustrialization). 7) The movement of many employment opportunities into the suburbs. B) In the ghetto neighbrohoods, where ghetto-related behavior is very prominent, there seems to be a cyclical effect of poverty. In these neighborhoods there is high crime, drug abuse and trafficking, reliance on illegitimate sources of income, poor schools and a lack of employment opportunities. There does not really exisit a structure of opportunity, children grow up seeing their dads and brothers in gangs or selling drugs, and the education they receive is not sufficient enough to inspire them to rise above poverty, lack of education greatly contributes to the cycle of poverty. There are not going to be any new opportunties in a ghetto-neighborhood, as Anne mentioned here, who would bring a new business into such a deteriorated neighborhood?

Thu Nov 5 00:31:38 PST 1998

Katherine Kelleher kelle018@csusm.edu responded:

Answers to questions for "When Work Disappears". A) Inability to obtain legitimate employment has led to two major problems; 1) fewer people in low-skilled jobs try to obtain employment, and 2) many individuals resort to illegitimate resourses to bring in an income. There are several factors that contribute to the drastic decline in legitimate employment opportunities. The reduction of mass production has been a major reason for the lack of productivity and low standards of living in some neighborhoods. In a thriving mass production system, jobs are plentiful even for workers with limited education and experience. However, because these jobs are disappearing, many low-skilled men find themselves out of legitimate work. The increased internationalization in the United States economy is another factor that has contributed to the growing gap in employment and wages between low-skilled and college-educated workers. The unemployment rate for both low-skilled men and women is five times greater than for those with a college education. The new global economy has created a need for better educated and more highly trained employees. Technical jobs in the areas of robotics and information systems require specialized education. This causes job displacement for routine workers in certain industries. In today's job market, if a new set of computer operated machine tools are required, the highly skilled engineer or designer will be selected for the job. The manual assembly-line worker will be overlooked. Word processing positions displace workers such as typists and secretaries because these jobs require knowledge of computer operations and software applications. The manufacturing sector has been so severely affected that African-Americans have little to no job opportunities in some parts of the country. Deindustrialization and industrial restructuring have been responsible for the growth in the population of the truly disadvantaged. Operative and assembler jobs among the older generation are disappearing, while lower-paying janitorial jobs are increasing. In 1987, the average annual earnings of a young man in the retail and service sectors were 25 to 30 percent less than those men retaining jobs in manufacturing sectors. Decentralization of employment has affected the central city as new plants have moved to the suburbs. The result for many is less access to employment. If one commutes to the suburbs from the city, much of the individual's income is spent on transportation costs and child care. Therefore, an individual might remain in the inner-city on welfare rather than waste time and money commuting to a job in the suburbs that provides relatively no income gain in the end. Policymakers have indirectly impacted the emergence of neighborhoods with few employment opportunities. They have made decisions that decrease public interest in low-paying jobs by reducing benefits, raising involuntary part-time employment, and ignoring the fact that the minimum wage has fallen to the second-lowest purchasing power in 40 years. The policymakers have also eliminated Aid For Dependent Children (AFDC) for families in which a mother is only employed half-time. The decline in wages and benefits compel many workers to move out of inner city neighborhoods. B) Those who live in many of our impoverished central cities are continually adapting to difficult circumstances. There are constraints on the choices individuals can make because they lack access to mainstream sources of information as well as organizational liaisons of privilege and influence. In this environment of limited opportunity, many behaviors emerge which create insurmountable obstacles for a productive life. Prolonged joblessness results in depopulation of the neighborhood and makes it more difficult to maintain basic institutions and social organization. Residents with income that sustains neighborhood services provide a structural resource for the community. When those residents and services leave the neighborhood it lowers the economic marginality of the ghetto-poor and increases the likelihood that that conditions will worsen to include illegitimate means of procuring an income. Life in ghetto neighborhoods subjects youngsters to behaviors that are risk-taking and violent. Children are placed in peril by selling drugs and witnessing crime on a frequent basis. The role models for these children do not control their own anger and violent tendencies. Since skills, styles, and habits are shaped by the frequency with which they are found in the community, the behavior with which children associate respect is very aggressive in nature. High regard is granted only if one is willing to carry and use a weapon. Ghetto-related behaviors represent an adaptation to the systematic blockage of opportunities in the inner city. In other words, even if opportunities exist, the skills, styles, and habits of behavior impede any possibility for advancement in mainstream society. Work constitutes a framework for daily behavior and patterns of interaction because it imposes regularities and discipline. Without predictable employment, there is little rational planning in daily life. When structure is absent, behaviors become increasingly apathetic, and those who could work no longer use the few opportunities available to them. Instead, behavior tends to involve drug use, drinking, and hanging out. When people are working, the picture is totally different. Political organizations are active and people get involved socially in their communities. As people have more interaction, they are able to share information about training and job availability, thus, a structure of opportunity develops. Unstable work and low income create feelings of emotional depression. As a result, parents sense of efficacy, in terms of what they believe their influence to be over their children, is low. When a whole neighborhood of people without jobs experience a reduction in collective efficacy, the negative attitudes and actions become a part of every individual's perspective. Unstable work, joblessness, and low income due to limited opportunities or structural constraints coupled with diminution of self -efficacy perpetuate attitudes and behaviors that hinder hope and progress.

Sat Nov 7 21:31:36 PST 1998

Rita Danskin lakegrove@aol.com responded:

In response to Anne Chambers first question, I don't think Mercedes was denying her heritage so much as trying to put it behind her. I think she believed America was the land of opportunity--it had been for her--and so she wanted to do what she thought was expected of her to be accepted as an American. She, and most of the people coming to live in America, believed it was the price you paid to live in America--you gave up the ways of the "old country.". Besides, non-American culture and language was looked at as being "backward."

In response to Julie Schmidt's first question, there are three ethnic groups depicted in the movie, namely white European-Americans (?), African-Americans, and Mexican-Americans. The whites and Mexicans seems to have the most conflict with each other. The whites somehow seemed to believe they had more right to this town, even though they were wildly outnumbered. The American educational system and our forefathers determined that white skin and American English were superior. This information has been handed down as gospel, and as we have discussed previously, our forefathers didn't just believe that they were superior, they also believed that they had the right to use other human beings as slaves. This was clearly depicted in the way in which Sheriff Wade treated everyone who wasn't white. It was also depicted by several people on the school board who wanted to re-write history in the textbooks!
As to why the blacks are not a big part of this conflict, I think it's because there were so few of them and because they remained segregated from the rest of the community. Even though the Mexicans were in the majority, they did not seem to have a problem sharing the town with the blacks.

On the ghetto-related behavior question, Anne talks about how difficult it is for people living in a poverty-ridden ghetto to get out because of the lack of opportunity. I am in total agreement with this. However, there is one statement I'm struggling with. At the end, Anne says that, "Many times there is no way around (the obstacles), but sometimes the obstacles are self-made." I certainly don't disagree with that, but I think there needs to be more to it. There are many of us from middle-class neighborhoods who make our own obstacles but we have so many other things going for us, it doesn't bring us down so low emotionally, socially, and economically. If one of us in a middle class environment pulls a self-destructive stunt, we often have enough other people looking out for us or other community safety nets that we only falter momentarily. When someone at the very bottom of the heap pulls a self-destructive stunt, they get buried.

I agree with Katherine's description of the "Catch 22" cycle that people in poverty-ridden ghettos find themselves. Instability in so many areas of one's life makes it nearly impossible to be successful. Only very highly motivated, disciplined individuals are able to claw their way up and out. Hardest of all, this motivation and discipline must come from within because they won't find these traits in their environment very often. Most unfortunate is the fact that even if they do see someone who is highly disciplined, motivated, and working hard, these people are rarely making a lot of money because they don't have the education to work in highly paid jobs. Seeing all this discipline and hard work go unrewarded is demoralizing.

Sun Nov 8 13:22:00 PST 1998

Mark Angelo Ware markaware@aol.com responded:

In When Work Disappears, William Wilson delineates the problems of joblessness in communities of the Chicago area. Wilson offers many layers of reasons as to why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities. The change and the decline of the mass production system in the United States has lead to few legitimate employment opportunities. Wilson states that mass production system resulted in plenty of blue-collar jobs, which did not require a lot of formal education. The inner-city families held most of these jobs. Most of these jobs were moved out of state or Suburbanized. Once these jobs became suburbanized, they were out of the reach of most inner-city families for many reasons. The suburbanization of jobs created a real transportation problem for those who wanted to work the jobs. Economically if a member from an inner-city neighborhood commuted to the job, the income they would make would not be enough to cover their traveling cost, let alone their living cost. So although their would be a desire to work, working some of these distant jobs would not been enough to maintain their respective families. Another factor, which contributes to few legitimate job opportunities in some neighborhoods, is the question of education. Most of the jobs available before, let say, the1960's could be obtained with a high school education. Wilson points out that the wage and employment gap between skilled and unskilled workers is growing partly because education and training is considered more important than ever in the new global economy. At the same time that changes in technology are producing new jobs, they are making others obsolete. The jobs, which have become obsolete, are the jobs that many inner-city neighborhood dwellers depend upon for their livelihood. To further add to the degradation of job opportunities, to add insult injury, the phenomena of deindustrialization also emerged. Deindustrialization removed many of the jobs from manufacturing to other sectors. These manufacturing jobs were very much dependent on by less educated blacks. Most of these jobs were local which did not drain the income, which was made by the transportation cost to and from work. Not only did the phenomenon of deindustrialization create a staggering loss of job opportunities in many inner city neighborhoods, but moving in on its heels was the birth of "industrial restructuring." Industrial restructuring included the removal of manpower to be replaced by automated technology. This restructuring removed jobs that were manned by inner-city neighborhood residence. All of the phenomena which leads to few legitimate job opportunities in some neighborhoods results in ghetto-related behavior because of the few opportunities available to work and the flaws in the "structure of opportunity." Because of the frustration stemming from the inability to find employment adequate enough to meet financial obligation, because of the lack of opportunity afforded to many of the working class in the inner-city neighborhoods, ghetto-related behavior results. The involvement in illicit activities to include the sale of drugs is a form of ghetto-related behavior resulting from lack of opportunity. This behavior leads to more forms of ghetto-related behavior. Homicides increase a s a result of the drug trade; thus affecting the lives of every member of the community, which the illicit activity takes, place. Ghetto-related behavior is directly affected by the structure of opportunity, the less opportunity that exist to be self-sufficient, to have gainful employment, the more ghetto related behavior evolves.

Sun Nov 8 19:59:05 PST 1998

Katherine Kelleher kelle018@csusm.edu responded:

In response to Julie's second question about the film "Lonestar", I do not think Mercedes was purposefully denying her heritage. She was a victim of circumstance. Her husband had been slain by Charlie Wade when he tried to take immigrants across the border. Mercedes treatment of the young immigrants may have been a fear response, in that when anybody of Mexican heritage tried to do what her husband was killed for, she subconsciously tried to stop them. In response to Rita's inter-generational question, it does appear that both fathers were "unavailable" to their sons. Otis and Del had a need to look good in the eyes of the community. Otis fulfilled this role by providing an atmosphere where people could feel comfortable and have a good time. Del took a strong stance for his community by joining the service and representing his country. Both fathers may have thought they were doing their best to protect and provide for their children. However, the children seemed to feel excluded from the decision-making processes for their futures. Now, to the question regarding the link between "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity". I agree with Anne that once ghetto-related behavior perpetuates joblessness, the children take the easy way out. However, the children are not taking this route out of preference, but out of lack of opportunity. It is not so much that people in the neighborhood don't care. They may strongly agree with mainstream judgements of unacceptable behavior, but feel compelled by their circumstances to join in behavior that keeps an income coming into the household. This does not mean that they believe what they are doing is right. Their internal goals and values may be exceptional. Yet, circumstances force them to adapt by utilizing behaviors that are contrary to their system of beliefs. In Mark Ware's explanation of the link between behavior and opportunity, he specifies the many factors that contribute to the lack of legitimate job opportunities in some neighborhoods. I agree it is important to note these factors, as they provide a basis for understanding the plight of the disadvantaged. There is a definite interconnectedness between the lack of potential for opportunitities to improve one's future and the futile behavior that becomes a necessity just to sustain life.

Mon Nov 9 21:42:58 PST 1998

Anne Chambers chamb012@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

In response to Julie Schmidt's first question: the three ethnic groups represented were white, black and mexican. the biggest conflict was between whites and mexicans. In the past, Buddy Deeds murdered the mexicans, and present day whites were complaining about the way Pilar was teaching because it wasn't the "white" version. Rita Danskin's 2nd question: Del was unavailable to his son because he did not know how to interact with people. He only knew the "hard-line" tactics taught in the military. He chose to hide behind his rough image. As far as "O" being unavailable to Del, it was the other way around. Del did not want anything to do with O because he couldn't stand nor understand wht way O caved-in to Buddy Deeds. O did it to survive. He saw the way people disappeared after not doing what Buddy wanted. Del thought O was weak and he couldn't stand weak men. That's why he treated his son so tough. He wanted him to be strong and not have anyone push him around. What he did not see was that he was the one pushing his own son. I agree with Mark Ware when he says that the less opportunity exists the more ghetto-related behavior evolves. Katherine Kelleher and I agree also, but in her response to my answer she stated that the children don't take the easy way out of preference, but because of the lack of opportunity. I acknowlege that there is an immense lack of opportunity, but I was taking into account the number of youth who choose gangs and drugs in the face of the social programs that many neighborhood churches and community centers implement to give them a way out. The programs take hard work, but drugs promise "flash" immediately.

Tue Nov 10 10:28:04 PST 1998

Julie Schmidt juls@ix.netcom.com responded:

Lonestar answers: (Response to Anne Chambers question #1) Mercedes denied her heritage as being Mexican because she saw how badly the other Mexican immigrants were treated and she did not want to be like them. She seemed to be a respected member of the community, maybe because she claimed her heritage was Spanish and she wasn't thought of as an illegal immigrant. She treated the Mexican immigrants poorly and often called immigration on them. I think she did this to strengthen her image as Spanish, and to supress any doubts from members of the community that she might be of Mexican descent. (Response to Rita Danskin's question #1) This relates to the first question I answered above. I don't think Mercedes was a racist, after all she was of the same ethnicity as the immigrants, so she really couldn't be racist against them. I didn't think of Mercedes' treatment of the immigrants as protecting them until I read this question, I thought she was primarily protecting herself. Then I thought about how she helped the immigrant woman with the broken leg and reconsidered that maybe she was trying to help them, constantly reminding them, "Speak English, you're in America". Maybe she was trying to get them to blend into American society as much as possible. But if she was helping them, why would she call INS on them? Wilson answers: I agree with what Rita Danskin said about the movement of big employers out of the urban areas into the suburbs for economic reasons being a cause for joblessness in the ghettos. In my opinion, this is one of the primary causes of joblessness in these areas. It makes sense that these "big employers" would move into the suburbs, they save money and are offered a better environment for their business than a run-down ghetto with residents who don't seem interested in reversing the cycle of deterioration in their neigborhood, but rather contribute to it. Anne Chambers mentions that it seems that persons in the ghetto are quick to say that it is too hard to get to work, so they give up rather trying to find solutions to overcome the obstacles they are faced with. I agree, it seems by the state of the ghetto-neighborhoods that people have just given up, and the people feel they are so far in the hole, they feel hopeless and not concerned with bettering their lives, but rather just surviving any way possible.

Tue Nov 10 21:28:15 PST 1998

Daniel Brown brown060@csusm.edu responded:

Inter-ethnic Why would a former illegal crosser ahve created such a double standard towards her own people? Inter-gender Did Col. Paine soften his response to the private because he knew if she was kicked out of the Army she would be back in her hard nieghborhood or was he afraid of civil court proceeding for being prejudice? Inter-generational Why did the second generation father repulse his son when he hated his father for doing the same to him as a child? Getting access to Lonestar when you have no VCR at home has been extremely difficult...

Mon Nov 16 23:30:19 PST 1998

Daniel Brown brown060@csusm.edu responded:

In response to K Kellers question. When Sheriff Sam Deeds pays his ex-wife a short visit,he says to her three times, "You look good, Bunny." He does not show true interest in her, in fact, he has nothing better to ask her than if she's still taking medication and setting fires. Let us consider what would happen if the roles were reversed. Do you think Sam would feel accredited if Sheriff Bunny Deeds told him three times in two minutes, "You look good, Sam"? Is it the purpose of his visit to validate Bunny's existence. There was obviously a serious breakup or change in their life. I think that the sheriff came there for one reason only and that was to retrieve what he needed in his quest for the truth in his youth. Did the sherriff really need to hold her up in some pedasstal? She was seriously disturbed. Besides she liked football WAAAAAYYY to much :) . In reponse to R Danskin Was Mercedes racist or was she simply try to protect the illegals from getting murdered like her husband? She was not a racist First I think that she was trying to protect her standing in the community. She was very prevelant in the structure of the business community and she needed in her mind to fit into the mainstream white society. In the end she helps them out. She remembers were she came from and helps her own. Even as she is doing this she still tries to get them to sepak english. I think that is the right thing to do. I believe that if you chose to immigrate to a country you need to become part of that culture by at least being able to communicate. Having value as a citizen without being able to communicate within that society is a poor choice for an immigrant from any country.

Mon Nov 16 23:37:07 PST 1998

D Brown brown060@csusm.edu responded:

3a WIlson offers simple economic capital flight from the inner city areas as a reason to why no legitimate opportunity exists. When there is no structure and jobs to aid in the advancement of the people, there is no way that a person can get ahead. 3b I think that the ghetto behavior leads people to stray away from the structure of opportunity. By taking the "easy way out" and going down the path with crime and drugs the people forget what it takes to succeed and then after failing in life cannot resume in a normal manner.

Thu Nov 19 21:57:53 PST 1998

Debra Taft debnjeff@earthlink.net responded:

3a. Wilson feels some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities because of the movement away from manufacturing jobs. This left manufacturing jobs that require education. These blue collar jobs were once jobs of status in low income societies, but the new technical jobs reduced the ability for less educated individuals to obtain these new jobs. Low income neighborhoods contain violence and a lack of respect for their future generations. This is not the environment the encourages new businesses to move in. 3b. "Getto-related behavior" breeds poverty. Low income neighborhoods teach their children to be lazy. "Structure of Opportunity" does not exist in low income neighborhoods. Watching others take the easy route through life teaches the young that you can make money (illegally) without an education. The role models in these areas are far from positive; they are drug dealers or gang members. To improve the community positive role models are needed.

Fri Dec 11 18:01:11 PST 1998

Debra Taft debnjeff@earthlink.net responded:

I don’t believe it was the death of her husband that made Mercedes the way she was. If his death was to shape her relations with other Latinos she would be more understanding about what they were trying to accomplish. Her husband was about helping people get to America, not turning his back on them the way she does. Mercedes also would not call the authorities, knowing that an officer killed her husband, if his death played a role in her decisions she would be less likely to do this. So is Mercedes a racist? Mercedes can not be trying to protect them. Calling the authorities is not protecting them. Helping hide them to get them across the border the way her husband did would be protecting them. I think to some degree she is a racists. Maybe racists is too strong. She is definitely an American loyalist. It may not be that she does not like her people, just that she believes in America. She has the same mentality that many Americans have; if your in this country you should respect their people and speak their language and live by their laws. We tend to view this as racist because we feel everyone should conform to our way of life. Mercedes feels loyalty to America because of the help she received from Buddy. I think Mercedes is more of a hypocrite than a racist. She forgot how she came to this country. As a young woman she too came here illegally. It wasn’t till the end of the film that she remembered that she was once in the same situation. That was when she finally helped another Latino, but even then she insisted her employee speak in English. The relationship between Dell and his son was very similar to the relationship between "O" and Dell. "O" did not play a role in his sons life, but to Dell’s surprise he did keep tabs on his son to know how he was doing. Dell thought his father did care and wanted nothing to do with him. When Dell saw the "shrine" his father had in his front room the look on his face made us aware that he had no clue how much he meant to his father. It was "O’s" lack of involvement in Dell’s life that shaped the way Dell related to his son. Since his father played no role in his life, he played a strong role in his son’s life, but he didn’t know his son. "O" wasn’t a part of Dell’s life and yet he knew his son the way most parents never do. Dell was involved in his son’s life, but had no idea who his son was. Dell’s biggest concern was shaping his son’s life and future, but he never asked what his son wanted out of life. Priscilla was facing many of the same concerns that most woman today face. Her tough relationship with the young recruit shows how woman today interact in the workplace. Woman feel a need to prove themselves to those in charge. In the processes we tend to be harder on other individuals than men would be. Priscilla’s boyfriend treated the young recruit with more respect than Priscilla did. Priscilla is less able to give the girl a second chance, we tend to be harder on other woman than we are on men. This role struggle also shows in the relationship between Priscilla and her boyfriend. She couldn’t accept that he would be willing to transfer with her. It is the typical role for the woman to be submissive and follow the man, so when he offer to follow her it was hard to believe. Another factor that might have played a role in her reaction to his desire to get married was that she wanted to make her career on her own, not because of who she was married to. Whether the marriage would help or hurt her career that was a situation she did not want to put herself into.