soc 311 salon 6b

Salon #6b: We are now going to try something a bit different in order to try to generate more discussion among all of us. I have divided the class into four sub-salons: a, b, c, d. My e-mail to you today indicates which Salon you are in. Two of the salons have 8 students in them, one has seven, and one has six (I want to get some idea of which size group might work the best).

Salon 6b has eight members. They include:

Louise Basford

Beth Carson

Andrew Fritzinger

Estella Gallagher

Britton Hill

Kathleen Johnson

Sara Rivera

Carol Schirm

In this Salon, I will offer some general guidelines for our "group" discussion on the Salon and will include some materials and ideas. You must all respond by Wednesday, Nov. 4 and then you need to respond a second time by commenting on responses to 4 of the other members of your Salon group by Monday, Nov. 9th. (You can choose which four to respond to).

You have two on-going assignments from this past week:

(1) Viewing "Lonestar" and developing 3 questions based on that film: one on inter-ethnic, one on inter-gender, and one on intergenerational issues. These 3 questions should be sent back to your sub-salon (6a or 6b or 6c or 6d--whichever one you have been assigned to).

(2) Those of you who have not yet done this, send me a short list of "hate mail" addresses on the Internet. I'll get back to you on November 4th about what we will do with the Internet addresses.

Now for the third new assignment:

(3) Read the first three chapters of Wilson's: When Work Disappears and respond to the following 2 questions by Wednesday, Nov. 4th.

a. What are the reasons Wilson offers as to why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities?

b. How do "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other?

Be sure to send your responses to your sub-salon!

Enter your comments below (Don't forget to submit):

To view others' comments in this salon, scroll down this page. [Soc311--Inequality Home Page] [Return to Salon Menu] [CSU, San Marcos Sociology On-Line Courses] [CSU, San Marcos Sociology Homepage]

Salon #6 Responses

Thu Oct 29 16:04:22 PST 1998

Garrett garrett@... responded:

test 6b

Tue Nov 3 22:12:00 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

#1) Why is Otis Paigne called the "Mayor of Darktown"? Do you agree or disagree with Otis, expalin. What about his sons feelings? #2) Mercedes Cruiz is a hard working woman who was given approximately $10,000 due to her husband premature death. Hollan (the mayor) witnessed her husbands death, giving her the $10,000 (Carlie Wade supposedly "stole"), for somewhat of a forgiveness. Mercedes states that men, "Have nothing but grease under their nails, come home and do nothing but drink beer and eat". Why does she seem so negative towards men? #3) Describe the generation gap between Otis Paigne and his son. What has made them so distant from one another. And what about Otis's grandson? Describe how their relationship has agffected this third generation.

Tue Nov 3 22:12:23 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

Tue Nov 3 22:12:47 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

Tue Nov 3 22:16:52 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

Sorry guys not sure what happened there!!

Tue Nov 3 22:17:00 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

Sorry guys not sure what happened there!!

Tue Nov 3 22:18:15 PST 1998

Andrew Fritzinger latigo@pe.net responded:

I. Lone star questions:

Tue Nov 3 23:22:58 PST 1998

Andrew Fritzinger latigo@pe.net responded:

I. Lone star questions: 1. Sherriff Dees son also became a Sherriff, compare and contrast the son to the father. 2. The racial problems in " Lonestar " seemed to overshadow another important issue, generational differences. Describe some cases in the film where this was an issue. 3. Describe how the film handled gender differences. II. Book questions 1. The reasons Wilson brings up as to why employment opportunities are not legitimate include continued segregation despite supposed social-racial improvements. Segregation exacerbates employment problems because it leads to informal employment networks and social isolation thereby damaging the chances of aquiring human-capital skills. Another reason is the decline of mass production in the United States, many of these jobs have been moved out of the country for cheaper labor. The demand in the labor market has shifted towards higher-educated workers in various industries and occupations. Jobs have also moved to suburban or sattillite cities. The cost of transportation to employment locations often makes it difficult to gain and maintian jobs. 2. Essentially Structure-of-Opportunity is the chicken. The lack of job opportunities for reasons described in question A(decline in mass-production, moves to suburbs etc.)Racial segregation and continued subtle discrimination are also a part of the Structure-of-Opportunity problem. Ghetto-related behavior is the egg because obviously the existance of the structure-of-opportunity problem is going to create the behaviors of high poverty and joblessness.

Tue Nov 3 23:41:22 PST 1998

Andrew Fritzinger latigo@pe.net responded:

Here are my hatemail addresses: http://www.nidlink.com/~aryabvic http://kkk.stormfront.org/ not sure where you want them, if you wanted them emailed or placed w/ the salon.

Tue Nov 3 23:41:46 PST 1998

Andrew Fritzinger latigo@pe.net responded:

Here are my hatemail addresses: http://www.nidlink.com/~aryabvic http://kkk.stormfront.org/ not sure where you want them, if you wanted them emailed or placed w/ the salon.

Tue Nov 3 23:41:53 PST 1998

Kathy Johnson eric21@home responded:

Lone Star assignment - This film was slow-paced but was really, really good; it stayed with me and certainly gave me a lot to think about. The questions are as follows: #1 Inter-ethnic questions: (a) Near the beginning of the film regarding naming the courthouse after Buddy Deeds, a Korean War Hero, and local Anglo legend, Hollis comments that "it bad enough that all the street signs are in Spanish." And Sheriff Sam Deeds, Buddy's son, responds that "They were here first", and 19 out of every 20 (people) in town are Mexican". My question is, there are Spanish-named street signs all over California - is there a reason for this other than history, is there some kind of salving of conscience inasmuch as Hispanics are often not treated as well as Anglos? (b) It just seems that so much of the film is about Mexicans trying to assimilate/resis assimilating into U.S. Anglo culture, and Anglos trying to reach back to the "good old days" when Anglos were in charge and Mexicans and Coloreds "knew their place". Example is in the bar and the bartender talks about how "back then" people knew "not to mix their salt and sugar" (not to mention their metaphors), and he said Sheriff Buddy Deeds made sure that people knew their proper place by issuing a "warning as a kind of a safety tip" to couples of different cultures. This is curious since he was having a many-year affair with a Mercedes Cruz (Pilar's mother) while married Sam's mother (the saint). How is that he and so many of us can say one thing and do another? Where is the equality in that equation? (c) And the bartender is genuinely bewildered that the town is turning into a majority or Mexicans who exercise their rights under the law, and a minority of Anglos who aren't in charge anymore - a new feeling for Anglos to be a minority. The next sheriff will probably be a Mexican. How can this bartender come to terms with his feelings - what are his options? #2 Inter-gender question: At the end of the film, if a understood correctly, it comes out that due to Buddy Deeds having an affair with Pilar's mother, that Sam Deeds and Pilar are actually half-brother and sister - and yet, not knowing until the end of the film of their biological relationship, they have always felt this sexual and spiritual attraction for each other. One of the few taboos left in our society is that of brother and sister having sexual relations. In the case of Sam and Pilar, how can, or cannot their relationship be justified? #3 Inter-generational question: Otis Payne's son is straight arrow Colonel Payne whose own son is not at all interested in following in his father's footsteps. Their relationships are tangled up with emotions and conflicts. What is it that enables Colonel Payne to let up on his son and quit pressuring him to prepare for West Point but rather accepts that his son has a right to choose his own life?

Wed Nov 4 11:01:10 PST 1998

Therese Baker tbaker@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Dear Section 6a: PLEASE RESPOND BACK TO THIS BY MONDAY, NOV. 9 SALON 7 WILL BE POSTED ON NOV. 10 -- MEANWHILE READ THE REST OF THE WILSON BOOK In this second phase of this salon,(1)please select two questions on Lonestar from two different students in your section and respond to them on the basis of what you learned from the film. (YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.) (2) How do two of the other section members explain the link between "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity". Do these agree with how you have explained this link, if no, how does your interpretation differ? YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.)

Wed Nov 4 19:57:23 PST 1998

carol schirm schir001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

The number of hate mail addresses on the web were amazing. Here are two: http://bestmall.com.bulletin/2/messages/651:html, http://www.afronet.com/wwwboard/messages/2763:html. The three questions from Lonestar, the movie dealing with inter-generational issues, inter-ethnic and inter-gender are as follows; 1. In american history many ethnic groups have been thrown into the "melting pot". There has been much speculation on how a certain ethnic becomes American. Some,even in this film as with Mercedes who makes everyone speak English, believe that this is done by turning their back on the previous culture and adopting the culture of the homeland. Can this conflict be found between Otis Paigne and his son. Explain. 2. Frequently in the film we were reminded that the territory where the film occurs has at one time been part of Mexico. Some mention of the type of territory it had been is discussed, with some fondness. If this is the case, how can the number of people crossing the border illegally be explained. 3. Pilar is the parent of both a girl and a boy. In Pilar's family the women have been head of household (both Pilar and Mercedes), finding jobs in service industries. How is Pilar's son viewed and what is the expectation for his future? From Wilson's book "When Work Disappears" Question 1. Location and availabilty of low skilled jobs make the difference between those being employed and those unemployed. Because many low skilled jobs have been relocated to foreign countries or out of crime dominated areas and the inavailability of transportation, many intercity people are unable to work. The only increase in work availability appears to be in service areas or "pink collar" jobs. 2. Wilson describes the situation where the structure of opportunity is limited. Where even those that want to work are unable to bring home any income. The overal economy of the neighbor goes down. Those more economically sound leave the area, creating less available cash in the community. With poverty comes the desperate attempts to make money which may or may not be legal. With the increase of crime, even fewer people want to be in the area. This creates less money in the area, more desperate attempts at survival by those unable to get out. More crime and fewer people still who want to be in the area.

Wed Nov 4 21:02:47 PST 1998

Beth Carson BCarson222@aol.com responded:

Just wanted to let you all know I am running a little behind, I have been out of town due to an illness in my family. I have rented Lonestar and will post my questions tomorrow (Thursday). I am looking forward to a great discussion group.

Wed Nov 4 21:12:27 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded: Questions for the reading from Wilson. 1) The reasons Wilson has to offer on why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunites are the many reasons that follow: Wilson's main focus seeed to be the racial tensions throughout these neighborhoods. These many racial issue, which occur, affects everyone. Businesses are looking for educated people, people with intelligence and who are trust worthy. Which are not found in these segregated areas. Drugs are used to make money. The upper class has seemed to have a hault on these jobs, keeping it for themselves, not giving others a chance. Funding is an important issue, without funding there are less businesses able to take that jump. Less education is another issue, kids are on the streets selling drugs not in school with a book under their noses. Business will then move, perhaps trying to locate the smarter side of society. #2) "Ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" will knock each other out. First of all they cant be mixed, they effect eachother because ghettos are filled with gangs, drugs, alcohol etc. Not much of a structure. You cant mix opportunity and drugs without one taking over the other.

Wed Nov 4 21:35:22 PST 1998

Kathy Johnson eric21@home.com responded:

Soc 311 When Work Disappears, Ch 1,2,3 Homework (a) What are the reasons Wilson offers as to why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities? Reasons as to why some neighborhoods, specifically ghetto neighborhoods, have few legitimate employment opportunities include: the population has decreased significantly over the years and it is the middle and upper class blacks, whites and others who have moved to the suburbs. When the people leave, and only the poorest are left, the businesses that supported and supplied services don't have enough business to stay open. The only businesses that remain are liquor stores and currency exchanges that cater to the poor. And those businesses that are in ghetto neighborhoods are usually small businesses that employ only a few people. It is harder for poorer and minority residents that make up ghetto neighborhoods to find, qualify for, and get to jobs in other areas. So joblessness increases. (b) How do "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other? Ghetto-related behavior and the structure of opportunity affect each other as follows. Ghetto related behavior is that found in jobless black poverty areas whose residents face certain social constraints on the choices available to them in their daily lives. The structure of opportunity, or lack of affects this ghetto-related behavior, and vice versa. Structures of opportunities is often available to middle class individuals who have at minimum a high school diploma and relatively stable upbringing. This is often denied to residents in ghettos where there is a higher use of drugs and violence and life is more uncertain. The ghetto-related behaviors reduce the opportunities for those individuals and the structures of opportunities do not fit the reality of a ghetto neighborhood.

Wed Nov 4 21:38:08 PST 1998

Kathy Johnson eric21@home.com responded:

Wed Nov 4 23:20:43 PST 1998

Estella Gallagher galla002@csusm.mailhost1.edu responded:

Lonestar Questions: 1. Compare and contrast Buddy's treatment of the minority people of his town to that of our present day law enforcement. 2. The role of women was defined through the film as that of homemaker/caretaker. Do you see this as a cultural or societal construction? 3. Why do you feel Mercedez demonstrated the amount of shame towards her culture that she did, and in turn, encouraged the assimilation of Mexicans into the Anglo culture?

Wed Nov 4 23:20:55 PST 1998

Estella Gallagher galla002@csusm.mailhost1.edu responded:

Wed Nov 4 23:43:46 PST 1998

Estella Gallagher galla002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

(I typed in the wrong e-mail address on the submition of my Lonestar questions.) "When Work Disappears" resonse: 1. "Legitimate" businesses, and in turn, employment, are absent from lower class neighborhoods because, as Wilson writes, they are infested with unhealthy social conditions. Drug use, violence, diseases, and the large homeless population blanket these areas and make them nearly foreign to mainstream America. People fear entering certain parts of town, and business men and women feel it is pointless to establish big name companies within them. The stigma that accompanies some communities are extremely hard to rid. Class, racial, and demographic changes bring in several stereotypes that push away many people. Even the government does little to help out those communities which reside in poverty. 2. For citizens of these "ghettos" the norm is different than in "Suburbia," USA. People tend to become encultured within their environment and to mimic the beahvior of the masses. In the ghetto's much of the dominant behavior, unfortunately, is not beneficial to anyone. Many citizens of these areas are out of work, involved in drug dealing or using, members of gangs or just mere circles of friends that tend to look for trouble. They have become rather isolated from the more prominent, respected culture of mainstream America. Ghetto residents are limited to what their community has to offer, or at least it is seemingly that way. Opportunity is scarce in these neighborhoods, as discussed in question 1. People outside of the situation may say that everyone has the chance to make it in life as long as they work at it. What many don't realize is that for some it is much more difficult to overcome the many obstacles they face, than it is for others. Realizing the difficulty of the struggle, impoverished citizens often times become intimidated and basically give up on efforts to supass their place in our society. They instead conform to ghetto life and become accustomed to its related behavior.

Thu Nov 5 11:44:20 PST 1998

Britton Hill hillsrus@ix.netcom.com responded:

(1) "Lonestar" questions- 1. What is the relation between Buddy's "sense of justice" (towards hispanics and afro-americans) and his relationship with Senora Cruz? 2. How does the movie protray women's roles in society? 3. Why is Senora Cruz so bitter towards the newer generation of immagrants even though she was one herself? (2) When Work Disappears questions- a. Wilson suggests that the reasons for such few legitamate employment opportunities are Industrial Restructuring meaning less low skilled jobs, lower pay, and the shift of industry from urban to suburban areas, the change in class and racial composition of the inner city, less non-poor families, and government policies that have contributed to the move of non-poor familes to the suburbs and trapped poor blacks in the city. b. The relationship between "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of oppurtunity" seems to be cyclical or in other words each feeds off the other. For example, Since there are less jobs people are forced to use more illegitamate means to earn income. This results in a higher crime rate which dicourages companies to invest or locate themselves in the area and the result is even fewer jobs.

Thu Nov 5 19:07:35 PST 1998

Beth Carson BCarson222@aol.com responded:

Lonestar Questions 1. When Charlie Wade was sheriff and Otis Payne was a yougster the sheriff told him "You learn how to act your place, son." Explain what you think he meant by that statement. 2. Compare Buddy Deeds to Sam Deeds in regards to how they enforced the law. 3. Mercedes Cruz seemed to be a hard working self made success, when it was revealed at the end that she had an affair with Buddy Deeds and he actually gave her the money to start the restaurant how did that effect your opinion of her?

Sun Nov 8 23:05:30 PST 1998

Andrew Fritzinger Latigo@pe.net responded:

THIS IS MY RESPONSE TO OTHER STUDENTS WORK FOR NOV 9. I hope I'm putting them in the right place since I havent seen anybody elses responses here -- I. LONESTAR-STUDENT RESPONSE. I responded to first, Kathy Johnson's questions 1b and 3. The first one (1b) asks why the bartender can believe in social segregation but have an affair with a woman of another race. This is a paradox, I think it is a combination of the fact that since he doesn't value people of other races with the same regard as whites he in turn didn't exert moral judgement in his affair with Mercedes ie because of his low view of Hispanic culure (along with other races)he simply didn't take it seriously, another part of that combination may be that a lot of time passed between his statement in the bar and the affair making it easier for him to make that contradiction. Question 3 she had was about why Colonel Payne let his son choose. I feel it has a lot to do with the controversy with his own father Otis. It's important to remember that not all but many situations where parents are strict on children goes beyond a father-son situation but it may be a multi-generation tradition going back many years. Maybe since this wasn't the case with Colonel Payne, he allowed his son to choose his own life. Louise Basford talked about how Otis Payne was mayor of Darktown. Otis basically ran the only African-American club in the town (except for an insignificant military club as described by his son). This was probably true in the days of Charlie Wade when the world was alot bigger. Today we live in such a commuters society that the people probably would take the time to drive an hour and a half to another town. However we mustn't forget that racial divisions exist in the first place that shouldn't be their. People should be able to go where they want. His son probably wished Otis had a more traditional life with more character. He may have thought Otis was on a " power trip " when saying he was Mayor of Darktown and the Colonel was trying to break that down when he explained about the club on base. Louise also talked about Mercedes view of men. The reason she probably felt that way is that she lacked a father figure in her life as a child and so thats all she saw of men was the "beer drinking". She probably knew that there was more to men than that judging by the fact that she was willing to continue her relationship with Dees even though she found out they were related. We were also told to look at two others responses to the 3rd question from Wilson's book. I looked at the same two peoples response as I did from " LoneStar ". I explained that the Lack of Structure of Opportunity was the cause of Ghetto-Related Behavior. Louise simply took the " Lack of " out of Structure of opportunity (maybe thats what we were supposed to do) and realized that they actually contradict each other. Ghetto-related behavior will take over structure of opportunity or vice-versa, they can't coexist. Kathy Johnson kept them seperate but they both had negative consequences. Structure of Opportunity or lack of equals joblessness, Ghetto-related behavior creates violence etc. The can affect each other but they are seperate concepts.

Mon Nov 9 20:00:43 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

Responses to Lonestar questions: Kathy Johson had asked "Where equality fit into the equation", and to answer that, unfortunately equality will never fit into such an equation. Not in our today's society, too much racism and hatred in today’s world. Most people, nowadays are very contradicting, especially when it comes to race. People don’t speak from their heart any more, afraid perhaps? No one will tell how they feel, they always tell people what they think they want to hear, afraid of being racist. In the movie, Sam fell in love with Ms. Cruz ever since they were little. Not thinking about race, because he loved her so much, that the color of her skin did not phase him at all. He was a true man, he did not care what other people thought, he was in love. The second question is from Beth Carson, questioning what the phrase, " You learn how to act your place, son." meant. It means exactly that. Mr. Wade told this to Otis Payne, when he first started working at the bar. That in Mr. Wades eyes the blacks had a place in society they were to adhere by. That whatever the white folk says, goes. Otis was strong and tried his best to stick up for what he believed was right. Unfortunately Mr. Wade was older than he and was an officer. Not too much Otis could do, but to be in his place. Another question from Beth was about Mercedes Cruz and if after finding out who she was, whether or not my opinion of her changed? Not really, from the start Mercedes, to me was a little different. Trying to make the best out of everything and trying to keep her business as legal as possible. Not wanting to help her Mexican workers but knowing that she needed to. Making sure they spoke English and not Spanish. After finding out about her affair, it only shocked me to the point that I was disappointed for Sam, no matter how hard Sam tried, he can no longer win. His love of his life, he discovers is his own sister. How horrible could that be. To answer Britton's questions concerning the role of women in the movie, I really don’t think there was one. Mercedes was her own person, she did not want to fail again, she worked very hard, looked after people who came to her for help. She is an oddity in this time period. Some of the women in the movie were with child, trying to escape the racism. They didn’t really seem to focus on women’s roles as much as they did with the role of racism throughout the movie.

Mon Nov 9 22:38:27 PST 1998

Estella Gallagher galla002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Response to "Lonestar" questions: Louise Basford questioned why Mercedez seemed to be so negative towards men. I feel that she was this way because of the pain she endured in her life because of the doings of men. It was a man who killed her husband. The death of her husband likely left her with a sense of abandonment, eventhough he had not purposely left her. Culture may have also played a role in her feelings towards men. Eventhough women have come a long way in the battle towards equality, being Mexican myself, I know first hand that the traditional domestic women's role still exists in that society. Many women who grow up instilled with the values of the "old days" may, today, feel a sort of resentment because they are still forced to follow those roles. The second question I chose to answer was posed by Beth Carson who asked what the sheriff meant when he told Otis to "learn to act your place." In the time of sheriff Wade, minorities were viewed as lesser beings. This was common knowledge in the town. African American's held a place in society which was much lower than that of the white citizens who held all the power. In telling Otis what he did, Wade was making it clear that Otis must obey what he had to say. The defined role of a black man or women in their society allowed no room to stand up for oneself against an Anglo. The sheriff was exerting his power over Otis and the entire African American society.

Mon Nov 9 23:03:44 PST 1998

Estella Gallagher galla002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

I agree with Kathy Johnson in that the structure of opportunity caters more to middle class, educated individuals. Further in her response she states that this isn't available to residents of ghettos because of the high drop out, violence, and drug rates. Although this is true, not every person who resides in a ghetto fits the general sterotype. However, they still have trouble finding a place in the structure of opportunity because of the stigma and the lack of big business in the area. I feel that Britton Hill's response sums up the relationship between opportunity and ghettos well. It is said that the relationship goes around in a circle. Big "legitimate" business fears development in a poverty stricken neighborhood because of the crime. Residents of ghettos can then blame their behavior on the lack of those legitimate jobs which could serve to keep many from the lives of drugs and violence that they lead.

Mon Nov 9 23:03:50 PST 1998

Estella Gallagher galla002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Tue Nov 10 20:37:10 PST 1998

Kathy Johnson eric21@home.com responded:

RESPONSE TO OTHER STUDENTS QUESTIONS ON "LONESTAR" - (1) Beth Carson asked us to compare Buddy Deeds to Sam Deeds in regard to how they enforced the law - In my opinion, Buddy Deeds was a combination of a "good ol' boy" type and a measure of caring. He wasn't above perhaps using his local fame as a war hero and accepting money he hadn't earned or helping himself to funds to set Mecedez up in her restaurant business. However he witnessed her husband being brutally killed by Wade. Buddy Deeds also saw the people as equal individuals and to some extent enforced the spirit of the law if not the actual intent. Sam Deeds on the other had was a person of strong values in the best sense of the word - he was not rigid or biased but instead flexible and accepting and did his best to enforce the law in an evenhanded fashion. (2) Carol Schirm says that in the film we are reminded that the territory where the film occurs has at one time been part of Mexico, and is referred to some fondness by people in the film, so how can the number of people crossing the border illegally be explained. My answer would be that regardless of how fond you may be of your country, if you have no opportunity to have a good life in the sense of having/obtaining a job, housing, food, education and hope for your children, then you look for a place that can fulfill those needs, in this case, across the border. RESPONSE TO QUESTIONS ON WILSON'S "WHEN WORK DISAPPEARS" - (1) Estella Gallagher comments on "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" state that the ghetto is the norm to those that live there and certainly different from "suburbia" We are both saying the same thing, but in different ways and I feel she has worded her response well. She states that ghetto residents are limited to what their community has to offer through scarce opportunities, which is true. (2) Britton Hill states that "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" feeds off of each other. I would agree with that and to take her comment a step further, it is a vicious circle - one generates the other and vice versa, and there is no easy or quick solution. It is a very complex matter to resolved segregation and instill the desire and find a means to learn job-related skills.

Tue Nov 10 21:37:57 PST 1998

Britton Hill hillsrus@ix.netcom.com responded:

Response to lonestar questions: Kathy Johnson's question was how can Sam and Pilar's relationship be or not be justified? It could be justified by the fact that they fell in love with no idea that they were half related. I wonder what would happen if a full related brother and sister who are seperated early in their lives and are married having no idea of thier past , later find out? Carol Shirm's question was if hispanics talked so foundly of mexico why were so many immagrating to the U.S.? The reason was while the people loved their culture, they came to the U.S. because of the oppurtunity of a having a better lifestyle, having a job, sending their kids to school etc. I would like to take issue with Loise Basford's comments on "ghetto behavior" and the"structure of oppurtunity. He states that Drugs, Alcohol, and gangs can't be mixed with the structure of opportunity. I think this is not necesarily true. Look at any High school campus especially in this area. I see drugs, alcohol and gangs. The same can be seen at college campuses, yet I don't see any lack of oppurtunity. So what makes the difference? I'll have to think about this more. Maybe some one else would like to comment on this.

Wed Nov 11 13:22:39 PST 1998

Beth Carson BCarson222@aol.com responded:

Lonestar responses, in response to the question posed by Kathy Johnson about the relatitionship between Sam and Pilar being justified/not justified after they find out they are half siblings, I thought alot about this question. These people have spent most of their adult lives feeling connected to each other even when they were apart. I think the main feeling I had about it was that the chioce to stay together would have been drastically different if it had been common knowledge among the townspeople about the affair between Mercedes and Buddy. The pressure of staying within the norms and confines of society would bring shame and disgrace to their relationship. I really don't feel it is justified because whether they love each other or not does not change the fact that they have the same father. My second response is to the question of Louise Basford who asks why Mercedes cruz feels so negatively toward men. For many years she was involved in a relationship with a married man, so this obviously could not have been a normal, healthy relationship. I think her attitude may reflect her years as "the other woman." Perhaps Buddy was the love of her life and she couldn't have him completely so she shunned all men. She lost loves in her life, so maybe it was the fear of loving another man only to lose him also. Maybe she became such an independent woman that she truly changed her attitude about men and needing them around. There are many possible answers to this question.