Salon #6a: We are now going to try something a bit different in order to try to generate more discussion among all of us.  I have divided the class into four sub-salons: a, b, c, d.  My e-mail to you today indicates which Salon you are in.   Two of the salons have 8 students in them, one has seven, and one has six (I want to get some idea of which size group might work the best).

Salon 6a has eight members.  They include:

Elise Bahr

Jeff Basford

Bobbi Jones

Mary Meredith

Anthony Simpson

Shannon Nemzer

Sally Fuentes

Christina Glady

In this Salon, I will offer some general guidelines for our "group" discussion on the Salon and will include some materials and ideas.   You must all respond by Wednesday, Nov. 4 and then you need to respond a second time by commenting on responses to 4 of the other members of your Salon group by Monday, Nov. 9th. (You can choose which four to respond to).

You have two on-going assignments from this past week:

(1) Viewing "Lonestar" and developing 3 questions based on that film: one on inter-ethnic, one on inter-gender, and one on intergenerational issues.  These 3 questions should be sent back to your sub-salon (6a or 6b or 6c or 6d--whichever one you have been assigned to).

(2) Those of you who have not yet done this, send me a short list of "hate mail" addresses on the Internet.  I'll get back to you on November 4th about what we will do with the Internet addresses.

Now for the third new assignment:

(3) Read the first three chapters of Wilson's: When Work Disappears and respond to the following 2 questions by Wednesday, Nov. 4th.

    a. What are the reasons Wilson offers as to why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities?

    b. How do "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other?

Be sure to send your responses to your sub-salon!

Enter your comments below (Don't forget to submit):

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Salon #6 Responses  

Garrett garrett@... responded:

Testing

Sat Oct 31 14:59:46 PST 1998

Christina Glady glady001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1.We were asked to view Lonestar and come up with 3 questions so here are mine Why was the father looked at as if he was hero when all he did was hurt other races or kill them ? With this movie being made in the 80'sor 90's when women had rights why were they treated so poorly? The son was the only one that knew the truth. Why did he keep it a secret instead of telling everything ? Next we had to anwser the 2 questions. Here is my responce: 3.a.Wilson says that some neighborhoods have less legitmate jobs opportunities because they have racial segregation. The nation has also lost its need for low skilled workers. Now a days people that live in ghettos are not able toget a gre great education, but many jobs are requiring that you have more of an education. The job ladder is holding them down. also businesses have started moving out of these neighborhoods because of the violence, gangs and drugs. pg 35 states "The departure of the big plants triggered the demise or eodus of the smaller stores, the banks and other businesses that relied on the wages paid by the large employers. To make matters worse scores of stores were forced out of business or pushed out of neighborhoods by insurance companies in the wake of the 1968 riots" With the big companies leaving the little companies could no longer run. Also federal housing policy helped lead to the joblessness. b.When there are no jobs people have to find other ways to make money. One of those ways was selling drugs. The selling of drugs then led to more violence. "ghetto related behavior and attitudes often reinforce the economic marginality of residents in jobless ghettos" pg 52. Many of them also did not have cars so they relied on public transportation which took a lot of time and also was difficult. Kids were not in shool so they were not getting an education so many started using and selling drugs. The high level of drugs was a problem that led to drug trafficking and drug trafficking led to more weapons. People were starting to feel that their neighborhood was dangerous. These ghettos were isolated so they did not see what was out there in the world. All that they were seeing was the terrible neighborhoods that they lived in. They did not have enough money to leave so they had to suffer i these neighborhoods.

Sat Oct 31 17:09:45 PST 1998

Mary Meredith pbjs@lasercom.net responded:

Hi Group 6a...I think the smaller groups will be great for giving and receiving feedback in this class. The "Lonestar" questions I came up with are as follows: 1. Interethnic: Sheriff Wade abused his position of power and seemed to have a magnified power over the Mexican population. Was this power and authority that he had as the Sheriff reeinforced by the fact that he was "white" also? 2. Intergender: Buddy Deeds was a "town hero", seemingly to everyone except his son, Sam. On the other hand, Sam's mom was frequently referred to as a "Saint" when it was common knowledge that Buddy had "another woman". What do these stereotypes say about "who is" and "who is not" culturally accepted in having an affair according to gender roles? 3. Intergenerational: Sam comments that he "spent half of his life trying to be like his father and the other half trying to give him a heart attack". What does he mean by this statement in relation to a father-son relationship? I know that the questions we were supposed to come up with are not supposed to deal with intraethnic issues, but I can't resist this one....The most puzzling issue of ethnic inequality, to me, was practiced by Mercedes as she would "speed dial" the immigration department, as she sat in a lounge chair on her patio, to report incoming illegal aliens (which was her background as well). What was with that? From Wilson's: When Work Disappears 1. The following are some of the main reasons Wilson offered to explain why some neighborhoods have few legitmate employment opportunities: I. The exodus of nonpoor residents of innercity housing resulted in a large depopulation of these areas, beginning about 1970,(leaving predominantly poor people and creating situations of "new urban poverty".) II. The major shift of employment brought on by the New Global Market where emphasis on educated workers became the trend and leaving vacant jobs for unskilled workers. (As factories left the inner-city areas, the availability of jobs disappeared. With more jobs available in the suburbs brought with it the issues of lack education as blue collar jobs requiring little formal education were scarce, the issues of lack of transportation and adequate childcare were present also.) III. Racial segregation was aggravated by political practices like redlining, and city zoning where small businesses could not retain insurance to keep their businesses open in the ghettos. Another problem was the creation of low-income housing (meant to aid poor but, at the same time, isolated them.) Without contacts to gain employment, it is difficult. IV. There is a direct correlation between drug use/dealing and an increased rate in violent crimes...this cannot help but discourage local businesses from these locations. (A breakdown of informal social control is a factor also.) 2. The "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other in many different ways. With the "ghetto-related behavior" comes the following componants (according to interviews Wilson recorded): lack of positive male role models, a generational tendency and peer pressure to do/sell drugs, and a lack of motivation to work hard. On page 57-8, Wilson states about the "structure of opportunity" that as "The decline of legitimate employment opportunities among inner-city residents increases the incentive to sell drugs." The high degree of social integration in the ghettos with low levels of informal social control makes a dangerous environment for children to grow up in. A life involved in gangs and/or drugs is a common result. "Ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other in that like a "domino affect". By this I mean that they negatively affect each other, for example, drug trafficking can be appealing because there is much money in it and there are few available jobs, while at the same time, drug make the streets unsafe (homocides have increased drastically since crack came onto the scene and, with it, the wide use of guns in the street). The longer the joblessness persists, feelings of no confidence and depression become problems. The attitude towards welfare in the inner-city is more accepting than in low to middle-class neighborhoods as women find themselves in a "Catch 22" situation. It is common to find that a low-paying job, (because it does not include medical coverage and costs of transportation and childcare are required), cannot support a single-parent family (mostly women with children). To sum it all up: Life in a ghetto is full of land-mines and heart-aches.

Tue Nov 3 22:13:03 PST 1998

Sally Fuentez fuent003@csusm.edu responded:

Hi Gang! Here are my three questions: Uno. Inter-ethnic - During a teacher meeting, there a few Caucasian teachers who oppossed the way the Mexican teachers were teaching their social studies curriculum. The Caucasian teachers wanted them to stick to the old curriculum and to basically hide the truth. How did this argument over the changing course curriculum reflect on the town? Dos. Inter-gender - Part of the movie had scenes that dealt with the military. There was a couple that had a inter-racial relationship and the town seemed to be o.k with. How does this compare to Buddy Deeds relationship with Mercedes? Tres. Inter-generational - Rosa seemed to care about the Mexicans. She seemed sympathetic to her mother's employees, and she taught her students about the true history between the Mexican/American war. Why did Rosa's mom, Mercedes, treat Mexicans so differently? (3) Questions to Wilson's: When Work Disappears - a. Some neighborhoods have few legititmate employment opportunities various reasons include: no funding to get businesses started in a location that would be convenient for the neighborhoods, there is difficulty when it comes to finding transportation - taxi cabs have been known to refuse to service some of the neighborhoods, 'a high degree of racial segregation from the larger society.' p. 15 and lack of education, the demand for labor has shifted towards employees with skills and higher-education. b. "Ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" affect each other in various ways. The ghettos are corrupted with drugs, gangs and violence. The classrooms are overcrowded and the schools will usually have 'unqualified and uncaring teachers.' p. 8. The key issue is there are no jobs in the ghetto. The structure of opportunity - 'regardless of the mode of cultural transmission, ghetto-related behaviors often represent particular cultural adaptations to the systematic blockage of opportunities in the environment of the inner city and the society as a whole.' p. 72. Adios!

Tue Nov 3 22:38:17 PST 1998

Jeff Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

#1. In the beginning of the film there is a debate over Text books and course curriculum. The debate centers on perspectives, the Hispanic perspective of Texas history and the American perspective. A man states, " the winners get the bragging rights." Should a sense on nationalism overshadow the true history? #2. Mercedes Cruz, the restaurant owner, is extremely strict with her workers. Does she need to be more strict because she is a woman in charge? All of the male managers are shown as relaxed. #3. Sergeant Payne pushes his son so hard to succeed that he pushes him away. His son says that when you're born you start from scratch. The sergeant seems to believe that he must work twice as hard as everyone else, in order to succeed, and hence pushes his son, out of love. His father has been successful while keeping in touch with his heritage. Is Sergeant Payne correct in his belief that, because he is black, he feels he must work twice as hard in order to succeed?

Wed Nov 4 10:58:32 PST 1998

Therese Baker tbaker@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Dear Section 6a: PLEASE RESPOND BACK TO THIS BY MONDAY, NOV. 9 SALON 7 WILL BE POSTED ON NOV. 10 -- MEANWHILE READ THE REST OF THE WILSON BOOK In this second phase of this salon,(1)please select two questions on Lonestar from two different students in your section and respond to them on the basis of what you learned from the film. (YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.) (2) How do two of the other section members explain the link between "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity". Do these agree with how you have explained this link, if no, how does your interpretation differ? YOU MAY SELECT ANY OF THE SECTION MEMBERS.)

Wed Nov 4 17:58:05 PST 1998

Shannon Nemzer nemze001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Hi group 6a! I think these smaller groups will be alot better. I don't know about you guys, but I just couldn't read everbody's responses and actually remain interested. Anyway, My interethnic question is what things do you think play a role in Mercedes Cruz's apparent prejudiced views toward her own people and her own background? My intergenerational question is do you think there is some type of common reason why Sam and the colonel both disliked there fathers so? And lastly, my question on an inter-gender issues in the movie is why do think the female leiutenant in the army wanted to be so much harder on the girl involved in the shooting at the club than the male leiutenant was? Now to answer the questions from the book "When Work Disappears." 1. One of the main reasons that Wilson offers as to why there are few legitamate work opportunities in the ghetto is that since the 1960's the exodus of professional and middle class people from the inner cities which only led to the eventual exit of businesses, factories, and plants. 2. Ghetto related behavior is influenced by a lack of opportunity. The book nentioned stu dies dome where violence increased in adolescence in both black and white males, but declined much more in adulthood for the white males, then a similar study was done of only employed white and black males and there was mo significant difference. If there is no employment, what do people have to look forward to? It leads to a lack of social organization, self-respect, and concern for the community which in essence is the basis for ghetto related behavior.

Wed Nov 4 20:16:24 PST 1998

Jeff Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

1. Wilson suggests that some neighborhoods are not conducive to business for various reasons. Factories have sought cheap labor in other countries, leaving few jobs for 'blue collar' often uneducated workers. These neighborhoods are often violent, making them high risk for business and, hence, making it difficult to get insurance. As residents become more successful they are not inclined to remain in these neighborhoods leaving a higher percentage of poor. 2. The lack of jobs and opportunities makes the use and sale of drugs more appealing, fostering "ghetto-related behavior." Lack of opportunities destroys motivation, the pursuit of education, or hard work. Selling drugs becomes the easy, though dangerous, way to earn money. Lack of Social Controls (transient neighborhoods, weak school systems, single parent families) fosters gang membership, and violence. Residents of these neighborhoods adapt, for better or worse, to the opportunities afforded to them.

Wed Nov 4 21:08:31 PST 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

Questions for the reading from Wilson. 1) The reasons Wilson has to offer on why some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunites are the many reasons that follow: Wilson's main focus seeed to be the racial tensions throughout these neighborhoods. These many racial issue, which occur, affects everyone. Businesses are looking for educated people, people with intelligence and who are trust worthy. Which are not found in these segregated areas. Drugs are used to make money. The upper class has seemed to have a hault on these jobs, keeping it for themselves, not giving others a chance. Funding is an important issue, without funding there are less businesses able to take that jump. Less education is another issue, kids are on the streets selling drugs not in school with a book under their noses. Business will then move, perhaps trying to locate the smarter side of society. #2) "Ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity" will knock each other out. First of all they cant be mixed, they effect eachother because ghettos are filled with gangs, drugs, alcohol etc. Not much of a structure. You cant mix opportunity and drugs without one taking over the other.

Wed Nov 4 23:42:36 PST 1998

Anthony Simpson Hombredelsol@earthlink.net responded:

Hello group. #1 What is the basis of the inter-ethnic struggle? As it was said in the scene with the teacher/parent meeting the Mexican Americans had been there for some time. Why do they seem particulary hostile now? #2 For the inter-gender question I was wondering if anyone noticed a type of paternalism in the dealings of the men with the women? I can think of a couple examples, but I am not going to say what they are. So my question is first did anyone see them and second why should they have been included? 3. There also seem to be a generation gap between Sam's generation and Buddy and Mercedes's generation. It seems that the older generation hold a very positive opinion of their youth, for example the racist bartender. The younger generation does not seem to understand their respect of the pasr I was wondering what may create this gap and lack of understanding? a. Wilson says that some neighborhoods have few legitimate employment opportunities for a variety of reasons. Wilson cites the exodous to the suburbs which took the welathier and more educated workers from the poor urban areas. when they left the community infrastructure erroded. Since those who remained were already poor and less educated they did not have the resources to pursue employment. Specifically they could not drive to the suburbs. Wilson does mention a racial line that effects the employment situation but he searches for more practical reasons to explains this phenomena. He also mentions the zoning policies of the suburbs which excluded the poor, federal policy such as freeway building and tax credits and urban renewal which often forced the poor from their homes. b. The structure of opportunity reinforces ghetto related behavior. The lack of opportunity in the ghetto leads to poor school, weakened social networks, higher drug use, lowered expectations and detachment from the fromal economy. It is especially hard on young people who are raised in the circumstances and see no other alternatives.

Thu Nov 5 20:28:35 PST 1998

Bobbi Jones jnzn@mailexcite.com responded:

1. (Sorry my responses are late group...it's been a HECTIC Mid-Term kind of week)Here we go - Inter-ethnic: I will stray far from the 'norm' response and look at the patterns of consistency on the part of Hollis, Wade's sidekick during the film. Was he practicing some type of religious plege to the code of the Sheriff's law book, since he was the primary witness to many of the Sherifffs discrepancies and murderous acts? What does that say about the unity within the 'legal' branch of government in Frontera, and why was Buddy not prone to following this code...or was he, but just in his 'own' type of way? 2. Inter-gender: The judgement from the lieutenat, Patricia (??) towards the other young black girl, who's friend was shot at the club, points to both inter-gender as well as inter-racial problems. Do you think that she was more strict on the young black cadet because of her own internal desire to see women achieve/gain equal status as the men (look at her status within the Army, the age/stage of her life that she decides to commit to marriage). Maybe she had an internal desire to push her 'own' people farther, especially the woman, to achieve status as a 'race.' 3. There were quite a few inter-generational relationships presented in this film (Buddy & Sam, Ottis & the Sergeant, Mercedes & Pilar). My question is in reargds to Ottis & the Sergeant - Do you think that Ottis was, in some way, justifying (or even perhaps pacifying, his own conscious when he stated : "It's not like theres a borderline between good people and bad people. You're not on one side or the other." ? Wilson: 1. Wilson concentrates his emphasis for this question on the fate of the segegrated ghetto. He believes that due to the increase in drug trafficking the state of the neighborhood declines and systematic regulations (such as redlining, zoning and the creation of 'public (i.e. low income) housing' sets in. Once in this state, the neighborhood finds that it can no longer rely on it's attractiveness to lure potential investors, employers (and their prospective companies) into this area of town. Thus, people remain in a cycle of despair, just barely being able to afford their whereabouts, but without the access to better skills/training, they cannot afford to move out of this confining hell-hole. Thus, segregation is complete. 2. Ghetto-related Behavior affects an individual's chance to secure decent, steady employment for themselves and their friends. This behaviour, the internalization of how much they 'do not matter' in society encourages them to settle for low-wage jobs that do not demand a set commitment (bonuses such as '401-K's) and other cafeteria plans for future savings are of no relevance to this 'short-termed type of attitude. In as much as most of us view ghettos as negative, Wilson immplies that there is a certain amount of structure in these ghettos because just the simbilance of a type of 'neighborhood' forces people to associate with each other...therefore some type of reliance is formed within the group. Drug culture is a sort of structure in that it hosts evidences of a hierarchal structure, leaders and followers, commodity flux (high prices, low prices, 'bargain' prices), as well as the fact that as such a strong structure with apparent appeal to younger/low income earners, it's influence forces the neighborhood to question it's own set of ideals and what is considered as a priority.

Fri Nov 6 05:46:10 PST 1998

Mary Meredith pbjs@lasercom.net responded:

I. The two questions from Lonestar I'll comment on are as follows: #1 Shannon asked the interethnic question about Mercedes'and what things play a role in her apparent prejudice views toward her own people and background. Pilar, her daughter, had made comments earlier in the movie about how her mother insisted she be identified as "Spanish" and not "Mexican". The way she treated her employees was harsh, but the clincher to me that left my mouth wide open was the scene where she "speed dialed" the immigration department to report the illegal immigrants coming across the river. In the end, when she aided the immigrants, she reminded the one young employee to "speak in english". Perhaps she remembered how hard it was for her to assimilate and that she had become "hardened" by that and her life's experiences (e.g. losing her husband, being known as the mistress to the town hero and then losing him). I would think her experiences would have given her more empathy for "her people" who shared her experiences. #2. Anthony gave an intergenerational question about the younger generation's lack of understanding for the older generation. The "lack of understanding", I think, is the key. In the relationship between Sam and Buddy, Sam didn't understand why his dad did the things he did (e.g. by keeping him away from Pilar). In the end, he realized his dad had "understandable" and good reasons for his actions (in different situations). Through this new understanding, Sam was able to "finally make peace with" and accept his dad. II. The issue of the connection between "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity", according to Wilson, is intertwined. It reminds me of the "domino theory" where one bumps in the other and so forth. I agreed with the responses that Christina and Jeff gave. (Both were similar in describing the characteristics of a ghetto neighborhood where opportunities have disappeared and attitudes and behaviors are prominant.) Christina included a good, descriptive quote from page 52: "ghetto-related behavior and attitudes often reinforce the economic marginality of residents in jobless ghettos". Jeff gave a good conclusive statement that said, "Residents of these neighborhoods adapt, for better or worse, to the opportunities afforded them."

Sat Nov 7 10:31:41 PST 1998

Sally Fuentez fuent003.csusm.edu. responded:

In response to the two questions, I chose to respond to Mary's inter-ethnic question - Mary said that Sheriff Wade abused his position of power and it magnified over the Mexican popultion. Her question asked if Sheriff Wade's power was reinforced by the fact that he was "white?" I would have to say yes! Because of his crooked organization, the Mexicans needed a white person in authority to continue smuggling illegal-aliens across without getting caught. Nobody was about to question a White man of authority...especially Sheriff Wade. In fact, his own race was terrified of him; imagine how the minorities felt. For my second response I chose Jeff's question to intergenerational. Jeff's question asked if Colonel Payne was correct to his belief that because he is black he must work twice as hard in order to succeed? Colonel Payne also pushes his son to succeed and in return ends up pushing him away. It is sad but true that Colonel Payne must believe in working twice as hard in order to prove himself. They way the movie portrays the minorities and the way society see's minorities as a whole, Payne's generation and their ancestors have experienced oppression to the extremes and he feels he must prepare his son for the forthcoming racism in his future. In regards to Wilson, I believe that all our responses were pretty much along the same lines. I am in strong agreement with what Anthony said about there being no resources to pursue employment in the ghettos and their circumstances leave no other alternative but negative choices. I also agree with what Bobbi said about the about the "ghetto-related behavior" and the "structure of opportunity". The people are living in a cycle of despair.

Sat Nov 7 12:27:04 PST 1998

Elise Baer baer002@csusm.edu responded:

It seems all my questions are relating to Mercedes character but her charactoer was interesting to me so this is my focus in formulating my topics of discussion. Why was Mercedes so sarcastic everytime her employees spoke to her in conversation. She reprimanded them saying "you are in America now, speak english", seconds later they would repeat their comments in english. Mercedes was bilingual and hispanic so why was she so upset?(interethnic). Why did Mercedes have an attitude about Pilars ex-husband who she called a "greasy haired chulo"? Did she feel ashamed of her heriatge or was this more a mother-daughter conflict? (intergenerational). Why was Buddy's mother thought of as a saint by all the men that were interviewed. Do you think the women of that time thought the same with the exception of Mercedes. How do you think Pilar felt about Buddy's mother? 3. 'Ghetto related behavior' and 'structure of opportunity' have a correlation where Wilson says the 'structure problem' of a weak labor-force and personal issues, constraints of opportunities manifest in their immediate environment and lead to a 'bonding' in circumstances for people. Wilson offers the following reasons for problems: a decentralization of employment affecting the central city as new plants have moved to the suburbs, reduction of the blue collar worker, a demand for a higher educated employee due to high-tech industries becoming a dominant employer, less mass production, a global market, FHA's redlining of mortgages creating a discrimination of housing availability all causing a negative cumulative effect on the ghetto. An example are women who do not have adequate child-care, no health care, little or no transportation. The government programs such as welfare and AFDC are not in sync with inflation-economic standards. Wilson quotes research whereby in social terms there is a lack of self-efficacy causing apathy. THe parents are struggling for survival and their children lack good role models. The same children have no opportunity for education because of their geographical circumstances whereby good teachers will not teach in bad neighborhoods. It is a violent atmosphere including drug usage or selling. They tend to adapt to this culture only through experiencing it on a daily basis. Poverty's conscious is not unique in itself and the ghetto is no exception except for the isloation issue. Also an individuals internal values and morals are not always the same as his cultures but there is a cultural transmission of values and beliefs in the ghetto of which can be very demoralizing and apathetic. The ghettos need is to have access (both geographically and socially) to the norms of society and this is vital for its survival in modern culture.

Sat Nov 7 13:27:15 PST 1998

Elise Baer baer002@csusm.edu responded:

Question 1: I chose to answer the interethnic question by Bobbi Jones who commented on the lack of consious that Hollis had in witnessing the murderous escapades of Charlie. Both in my opinion had a lack of morality it brings the case in current the media about witnessing a crime and not reporting it. Charlie had his good old boy network although most were hesitating participants who turned a blind eye to his dirty deeds and Hollis' numbness and cowardness was a betrayal to Rio County. Question 2: I chose Beth Carson's question on Otis role as the bar owner in Rio County. Otis knew his place in town because he wanted to survive and he found out early on when Charlie said "don't you know your place" during a visit and subsequent bar fight. He knew that being a black businessman that his livelihood depended upon Charlie having the upperhand in running his business, you can say Charlie was a 'silent partner'. Otis lived a quiet life in as much as I think he had set up house there too. I chose Carol Schim in salon b and Sarah Dyroff as those whom agreed with in their summaries on Wilsons chapter 1-3. They both appealed to the lack of community, no help from family, friends, and government that are reasons for the ghetto. Both believed the social and cultural norms of the ghetto were distorted from normal culture leading to prevelant poverty, apathy and no employment opportunities outside this apathetic and hopeless place.

Mon Nov 9 07:07:59 PST 1998

Christina Glady glady001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

In response to Mary’s question 3. As a child most of us tried to please our parents and be like them. Many of us saw our parents as heroes and strived to be like them. As a child Sam wanted to be like his father because his father was a hero to him and the town saw Buddy as a hero too. Later he saw what his father really was, prejudice. He did not want Sam dating the Hispanic girl. From the time Buddy pulled Rosa and Sam apart at the movies he hated his father and went against him. Sam decided he did not want to follow in his fathers footsteps. He now saw his father as awful. He then decided that he would do anything to make his father mad. In response to Sally’s question 3. Rosa’s mother, Mercedes, was cruel to her workers. At work she treated them kind of nice, but she was always reminding them that they are in America so they should speak English. Mercedes felt that since she worked so hard to be excepted by American culture. She felt that the other workers should work as hard as she did. She wanted them to lose their Hispanic ways in order to become excepted better by America. I agree with Jeff. He says that Lack of opportunities destroys motivation, the pursuit of education or hard work. I agree with that statement a lot. If you are not pushed to succeed then more than likely you will not succeed. I agree that people will adapt to what ever environment they are in direct contact with. I also agree with Louise. She tells how drugs are used to make money. She also explains that the upper class people take the jobs and make money leaving no jobs for the lower class people. Ghettos do have a lot of problems because of gangs, violence and alcohol. They have a lot of problems and very few chances for success. They seem to be saying the same thing. They agree that ghettos have problems. They also seem to agree that it is difficult to move up once you are considered a class.

Mon Nov 9 12:24:01 PST 1998

Shannon Nemzer nemze001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Well group 6a, here are my responses to two of your questions about the film Lonestar. I would like to respond to Mary's question about sheriff Wade's abuse of power and if it was enhanced by him being white. It is my assumption that not only was his abuse of power enhanced by him being white, it is the stem of it. In that small town, I'm sure he would not even be sherriff had he not been white. The second question I would like to respond to is Sally's question about why Mercedes treated her Mexican employees to badly. I think that part of the reason she seems to seperate herself from them is because she has had to assimilate to succeed and fit in the town. Some of the affects of assimilation even if it begins as superficial is that many times you begin to take on there social norms and beliefs. I think another reason is because her husband died being associated with illegals, and to avoid any furthur pain associated with that she pushes them way.

Tue Nov 10 19:50:50 PST 1998

Bobbi Jones jnzn@mailexcite.com responded:

Responses: I agree with Jeff when he stated that Mercedes Cruz appeared to be strict with her workers. I would, however, go further to state that not only is she strict, but she is also distrustful of the people who make her business grow. She is a 'token' Mexican, dressed up like a Spaniard. She is correct, I suppose to affiliate herself with a group of people who made their mark on America through 'conquering' all in their pathways to success...hence the names "Conquistador." She is a true Conquistador in spirit and in action. I do wonder, however Jeff, if all the male managers in the film were presented as 'relaxed.' Take Otis for example. He admitted that his establishment dealt with all kinds of social issues...it's the place where people fall 'in love', 'out of love', they fight, and sometimes kill for love.....and all he does is provide the drinks (which doesn't help their state of mind). His place is sometimes used as a hotel, giving those who can't return home for one reason or another, an alternative place to lay their heads. His "societal Position" must weigh heavy on his heart...his contact with so many others led to extramarital affairs, hence the sad relationship with his son. Plus the stress of being 'everything...a (in his onwn words)'one-stop shop' cannot be easy....it's the way, however that he chooses to make his living. Secondly I will respond to Sally Fuentes' first question: How did the attitue of the teachers affect the town? Sadly, the attitude of the teachers manifests itself in the most effectively organizing branch of the town: the local government and the law....hell, wasn't it interesting how, in objecting to consder the disputes of the Mexican's over naming that bldg after Buddy, they also mentioned the fact that every town has a street named after Martin Luther King? It is as if the ruling parties of the town consider all races as minor, and minorities...there is no distinction..a Mexican is a Black is an Indian is a non-white American...therefore, is a THREAT and must be subdued.... I liked Shannon's interpretation of the interrelated relationship between the structure of oppt and ghetto-related behaviour. As her note of the employment studies done, where there is employment, education, or some other EASILY accessible means toward upward mobility, there is a decrease in crime, povery and illiteracy.....a decrease in ghetto related behavior...a decrease in the absencece of goals....an decrease in the ever-so-popularized attitude of 'who cares (about success, about safety, about health, about education, etc)....I also liked Mary Meredith's interpretation of ghetto related behavior...without the presence of opportunity...or 'limited' opportunity, which normally presents itself in the fom of part-time jobs that offer the maximum number of hours allowed without any type of benefits available. This is, I agree, a 'catch-22' type of situation, especially for single parents, because the way that the child-care system is now structured, there is little to no chances of finding 'drop off as needed care.' Most 'part-time' child care centers require that the children stay for a slotted amount of time, (either 2-3 days, not by the hour) each week....normally not within the type of hours that you will require care. For those parents that wish to try to earn the maximum wage possible, the shift that they will work will normally be a 'swing' shift....so called this because an individual literally has to SWING from a branch to accomodate the schedule....change child care (which only works if you have a mate or doting mother/father in law), sleep patterns, and family lifestyle...which leads me to wonder...how does this type of parent strive for FAMILY VALUES when they are encouraged by economics to stay as far away from their children as possible (letting them be raised by others) just to receive a meager paycheck?

Tue Nov 10 20:31:57 PST 1998

Jeff Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

1. (Q1 Meredith) Power was abused by many people in the film. Mercedes Cruz abused her employees in an effort to distinguish herself from her past. Also, the police officer who was planning to run against Sam Deeds for sheriff was abusing his convict as they walked through the police station. 2. (Q4 Meredith) Mercedes Cruz's immediate willingness to "speed-dial" immigration seems to be her attempt to distance herself from her past. 3. (Q2 Fuentez) Unfortunately, many of the townspeople were opposed to the interracial relationship between the military couple at the bar. The bartender was expressing his disdain to Sam Deeds while the couple sat in the bar discussing marriage. 4. (Q3 Nemzer) I think the female lieutenant wanted to be tough on the girl who had been caught taking drugs for much the same reason that Sergeant Payne was tough on his son. The lieutenant was pushing the girl harder out of concern for her future.