Salon #2: Now we will start to address Toni Morrison's Beloved. 

Mini-lecture on Beloved.  You should read the first 200 pages by Wednesday, Sept. 9th and answer the questions below at that time.

Beloved has been called a "ghost" story.  It is not written in chronological order, but begins in 1873, nearly a decade after the Civil War ends.   And then there are flashbacks to earlier periods under slavery, under escape from slavery periods, and in the 1870s (the present time for this novel).

The main character, Sethe, is a former slave who lived on a plantation called "Sweet Home" which was in Kentucky and then escaped and settled in Cincinnatti, Ohio.  This story tells of her experiences under slavery, of her escape, of her early years of freedom, and of the condition she is in by 1873.

It also tracks the experiences of a man who was at the same plantation, Paul D., who meets up with Sethe years later--of his life at Sweet Home, of his escape, and of his life under "freedom."  These stories lay out very sharply the "costs" of slavery as a psychological, social-emotional experience.  They bring to the fore the ethical dilemmas which slavery posed, how it undermined human relationships and institutions (such as the family), what it did to those who enforced slavery, etc.

There is a major dramatic episode in this story that creates the central issue of the novel (that begins on p.148 of the Plume edition).  This is necessary to understand who Beloved is and what she represents.

Note that this novel is about the re-creation of the self, which one can see in the characters of Beloved and Sethe.  However Beloved is not not quite human.  Is she a ghost?  a monster?  Think about these possibilities (and other ones) as you try to answer question 1 below.

As you read, also keep track of these following issues for the Salon 3 questions which will appear next Thursday, Sept. 10th.

Begin to get a sense of Denver, Sethe's youngest child, and how she compares to Beloved. Why is she different?

And think about the role of Baby Suggs, Sethe's mother-in-law.   Pay attention to her role in the new community that the ex-slaves establish in Ohio.

Note that there are four central women in this novel: Sethe, Beloved, Denver, and Baby Suggs.  Think about how they relate to each other, what they signify about mothering, about bonding, about the most primary ties which people establish in order to give their lives meaning.

Lastly, begin to think about the role of white people in this book, the Garners, Schoolteacher, etc.  How are they characterized?  What do they represent?

Questions for Salon 2:  to be answered by Wednesday, Sept. 9th.

The title of the book comes from the Bible:  Roman 9:25

"I will call them my people which were not my people, and her beloved, which was not beloved."

1. In the book who is Beloved?  What does she represent?

2. What do you think the dedication at the beginning of the book:   "Sixty Million and more" refers to? 

3. What did "inequality" under slavery mean?  Think about the institution of slavery--how it affected other social institutions, its impact on "rights," on human emotions and ties, on property.

4.  How far is the quest of "equality" a primary driving force for Sethe and for Paul D.  Was inequality under slavery experienced similarly by Sethe (as a woman) and by Paul D. (as a man)?

Enter your comments below (Don't forget to submit):

To view others' comments in this salon, scroll down this page. [Soc311--Inequality Home Page] [Return to Salon Menu] [CSU, San Marcos Sociology On-Line Courses] [CSU, San Marcos Sociology Homepage]

Salon #2 Responses  

Garrett garrett@... responded:

Response Test

Wed Sep 9 05:36:25 PDT 1998

mary meredith pbjs@lasercom.net responded:

1. There were details given about Beloved that made her appear to be the crawling-already daughter of Sethe (and the older sister of Denver) who had come back to them 'from the dead'. The mention of Sethe's earrings and the scar under Beloved's chin were two tangible signs to Sethe and Denver that this girl truly was their 'Beloved'. I believe that this girl who received the name, Beloved, was possibly the girl mentioned in the book who had killed her abusive master (she was kept by) and escaped. The details given of the mystery of her new shoes and nice dress, and her loss of memory, indicated to me that she may have been this girl who had been so badly abused. Beloved represented a family's (Sethe and Denver) emotional need to reclaim that which had been lost. ( I thought it was interesting that the baby, throughout the book, was referred to as the 'crawling-already? baby' and not called by a name. This reinforced my belief of the impossible task that Sethe had in being at peace with her actions. Being faced with the alternatives of she and her children being taken back to "Sweet Home" by Schoolteacher or escaping through family suicide, in the hope of being with her children "on the other side", didn't leave her with viable choices. The heartache of this dilemma was a constant thread in this tapestry of story about human suffering.) 2. The "sixty million and more" refers to the African Americans who were entrapped in the social institution of slavery. 3. I don't think the term "inequality" is adequate to explain slavery. The word "ownership" and "property" comes to my mind. In as much as the experience that Sethe and Paul D. had under the authority of Mr. and Mrs. Garner was 'more fair' than most slaves experiences, they were still 'the property' of white people. As far as the issue of "rights" is concerned...my reply is "What rights?" Slaves had none. (They were 'allowed' some freedoms and choices on "Sweet Home" such as the men being allowed to carry guns to hunt with and their opinions valued by Mr. Garner.) 4. If "equality" is synonimous with "freedom" in this question, the answer for me is "unto death". "Freedom" from being abused was worth the risk of their lives to Sethe and to Paul D. (On page 163, Sethe in reference to her children's lives, thought that death "would be safe".) Sethe and Paul D.'s experiences were similar with some differences because of their gender. Sexual abuse for women slaves was an added burden. (Sethe's milk being 'taken', for example, was a sexual assault by Schoolteacher's nephew.) All slaves were under authority of the moods and whims of the white people that they were owned by and any other people with the only requirement being the whiteness of their skin.

Wed Sep 9 13:00:24 PDT 1998

Katherine Kelleher kelle018@csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved is the daughter Sethe murdered. Sethe did not want Beloved to be subjected for life to the horrors of slavery. Beloved represents a spirit who comes back to haunt the family at Bluestone Road. She symbolizes the conscience of the good and evil choices in life. 2. The dedication "Sixty Million and more" refers to the number of slaves who were victims of atrocities so cruel that Toni Morrison felt convicted to decribe their struggle. 3. Inequality under slavery meant that a slave was not regarded as having rights of his own. A slave was treated as personal property that could be bought or sold. An owner of a slave could treat him as he would a piece of machinery or a tree, using him as long as he was useful and then killing him and letting him die. Slavery affected other institutions as well. Property ownership, business endeavors, and greed by the slave owners superseded the rights of families to stay together. There was great class distinction between the wealthy and poor leading to power by the elitist. Religious freedom and pursuit of happiness were unobtainable for the victims of slavery. 4. The primary driving force for Sethe and Paul D was survival. Life centered around meeting basic needs. The relationship between them could not be complete as they were always running and watching for danger. Equality was a driving force as a dream or hope worth striving for, but not a reality. Inequality under slavery for Sethe, as a woman, was experienced as an eternal suffering and grieving as she watched her loved ones beaten, tormented, and killed. Inequality experienced by Paul D, as a man, was bondage to rules that could not be broken or death would be the consequence. In order to remain sane and help family he had to focus on the role expected of him. He could not allow himself to feel the emotions of the sorrow that surrounded him.

Wed Sep 9 13:06:05 PDT 1998

Katherine Kelleher kelle018@csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved is the daughter Sethe murdered. Sethe did not want Beloved to be subjected for life to the horrors of slavery. Beloved represents a spirit who comes back to haunt the family at Bluestone Road. She symbolizes the conscience of the good and evil choices in life. 2. The dedication "Sixty Million and more" refers to the number of slaves who were victims of atrocities so cruel that Toni Morrison felt convicted to decribe their struggle. 3. Inequality under slavery meant that a slave was not regarded as having rights of his own. A slave was treated as personal property that could be bought or sold. An owner of a slave could treat him as he would a piece of machinery or a tree, using him as long as he was useful and then killing him and letting him die. Slavery affected other institutions as well. Property ownership, business endeavors, and greed by the slave owners superseded the rights of families to stay together. There was great class distinction between the wealthy and poor leading to power by the elitist. Religious freedom and pursuit of happiness were unobtainable for the victims of slavery. 4. The primary driving force for Sethe and Paul D was survival. Life centered around meeting basic needs. The relationship between them could not be complete as they were always running and watching for danger. Equality was a driving force as a dream or hope worth striving for, but not a reality. Inequality under slavery for Sethe, as a woman, was experienced as an eternal suffering and grieving as she watched her loved ones beaten, tormented, and killed. Inequality experienced by Paul D, as a man, was bondage to rules that could not be broken or death would be the consequence. In order to remain sane and help family he had to focus on the role expected of him. He could not allow himself to feel the emotions of the sorrow that surrounded him.

Wed Sep 9 21:11:30 PDT 1998

Veronica Castelo caste001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1.)I believe Beloved to be the slain daughter of Sethe. Due to the harsh and cruel treatment that Sethe and her family had experienced as slaves of the white man, Sethe chose to murder her daughter so that she would not have to live in the harsh reality of slavery and oppression. Sethe did not want her daughter to grow up in a world that did not encompass equality and freedom, she did not want her "Beloved" to grow up in the same world that she had. Beloved is a ghost, a ghost hiding under a human "shell". She represents all of the love and companionship that is yearned for in "Sweet Home". She brings back to life all that was once lost. In essence, Beloved is a dream come true for both Denver and Sethe, she is the friend, daughter, sister, and companion that they had both longed for. 2.) The dedication at the beginning of the book: "Sixty Million and More", represents all of the men and women that were taken in by slavery and oppression. Toni Morrison provided this dedication so that her readers would be aware of, and acknowledge, all of the people that were subjected to such cruel and undeserving punishment. She wants to commemorate their lives, to recognize that every individual was special, and lastly, to educate us and provide us with the vast number of lives that were taken in vain. 3.)"Inequality" under slavery meant many things. For one, it meant ownership, it meant becoming one's personal property. "Inequality" meant lack of freedom, not being able to be yourself. It meant having to comform yourself to what/who your owner wanted you to become, leaving no room for personal opinions and loving relationships. About every social institution was impacted by slavery in one way or another. The most important social institution that slavery effected was the institution of family. Families were not allowed to stick together, children were not able to grow up with their mother and father. Husbands and wives were torn apart, children were sold and raised by strangers. Religious freedom was robbed of the slaves. They were not allowed to attend their own church, to believe in the God that they wanted to believe in. In addition, friendships, brotherhood, businesses, and many more social institutions were effected by slavery. As far as "rights" are concerned, I would have to question the term "rights". There were no rights, all of their rights were taken away by slave drivers. The rights that were given to the slaves were privileges that were granted to them by their owners. Slaves were not allowed to show their emotions in public, they had to reserve their love and effection for one another until they were in a secluded place where the white man could not observe their actions. Property-wise, what property? The black man had nothing, nothing of value to call their own, they were considered lucky individuals to own any type of property, especially that of value. 4.)The quest for "equality" for both Sethe and Paul D. has become a great driving force that includes, but is not limited, to the search for freedom. "Equality" meant searching for anything, and everything, that made them happy. They would run and hide from their owners in order to find their freedom, to become equal. Although both Sethe and Paul D. knew that "equlaity" would eternally remain a far-fetched dream for them, it was still something to hold on to, something that kept them living. Sethe and Paul D. did encounter some similarities in the sense that they were "owned" by the white man, but at the same time, they did receive different types of "inequality under slavery". Under slavery, Sethe lived in a world of cooking, cleaning, forced rape and prostitution, as well as battery. Paul D. lived in a world of intense labor, physical abuse also includes. Being a black man owned by a white man was much worse than being a black woman in the same situation. Being a black man entailed dialy sessions of physical abuse, and a constant fear of being murdered. The lives of both black men and women rested in the hands of the white men who owned, oppressed, and abused these innocent people, thought of as guilty only because their skin was of a darker shade than theirs.

Wed Sep 9 21:53:49 PDT 1998

Shannon Nemzer nemze001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved seems to be the "crawling already baby" which died at the hands of her mother Sethe. I believe that Beloved represents not only that baby, but also many of the things that were missing from Sethe,Denver,and Baby Suggs'lives. The ghost never stayed in one form or predictable for any length of time, because it was filling a void where there was one, or enabling them to in their own way to deal with nightmares from the past as they came up or were created. Possibly at times, the ghost served as a much needed distraction. Beloved may also be the innocent, caring, loving, hopeful parts of these people that they have been forced to remove from themselves to survive. 2. The dedication in the beginning of the book refers to the innumerous amount of people tragically affected by the evil and ignorance of slavery for generations and generations, long after the actual act of enslavement. 3. I don't believe inequality to be an adequate word to describe the institution and idealogy of slavery. But for lack of a better term, equality under slavery varied from situation to situation. Some slave/master relationships were slightly not as repulsive, such as Sethe's relationship with Mrs. Garner as opposed to the treatment of the of Paul D. in the prison work camp and the relations with the guards, or whatever they were called. The institution of slavery affected all other social institution right down to the slaves relationships and emotion, or lack there of, with their own flesh and blood. The devastating and negative affects of slavery and it's aftermath have and still are imbedded in our social institutions. Today minority children are still looked at as secondary by our government and it's caucasion legislators. They are more often abused, picked out, isolated, and punished, especially the males. If these children still experience this form of discrimination, how can they grow to be free. 4. I don't believe that equality was an upfront driving force for either of these characters, after all that has been done to them, and being born to slaves themselves, I don't think "equality" was even something contemplated as a possibility. I believe they ran due to excruciatingly painful experiences they had and they just wanted to be left alone. As far as the differences for men and women in slavery, I wouldn't say they were very different at all. They were more alike if anything. Sexual abuse was obviosly more prevalent among the women, but still occurred for the men. In the slave community there was an inequality among men and women. I think the women were and acted somewhat subserviant to the men.

Wed Sep 9 23:37:15 PDT 1998

Sarah Dyroff dyrof001 responded:

1. Beloved is the ghost of 124 Bluestone, she was Sethe's baby. Sethe murdered her while an infant, to avoid the risk of being abused and living an unhappy life at the hands of a "master". Sethe must have believed this to be a better alternative but spends the rest of her life dealing with her choice. Beloved represents the decisions that were made and how the effects are a constant reminder of how life twists each individual around those choices. 2. "Sixty Millon and more" are the slaves that endured the tortures brought on by the white man. I believe the "and more" represents the number of slave that are unaccounted for. The countless lives that have been destroyed that were never given so much as a comment, no one to hear their dispair, no one to protect them from the injustice of mankind. Inequality under slavery means you have no rights, unless it suits someone else at a given time. What could be a right one day, could just as easily be taken away the next. Crimes may be committed against you, but they are not a crime unless someone "feels" it may have been. There are no rules for you as far as protection on your life goes. Only rules for you to follow from someone else, to protect them, or to give them what they want. Inequality under slavery means "you don't count". It destroys self-worth, dignity and there is no safe haven for you to come to. 4. The quest for equality for Sethe and Paul D was like air itself. This was something they were compelled to strive for. Without this continual drive, they would have no reason to go on. Sethe and Paul D were similar in that they both were very deeply emotional people, but it's almost as though their feelings had to be pushed out of their own self to exist in a world so unfair and uncaring. Sethe acted more on her emotions outwardly than Paul D, but the desire for freedom was buried just as deep in Paul D. Both wanted this basic human right, and could not be whole without it.

Thu Sep 10 14:22:51 PDT 1998

Jill Gustus gustu001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved was the baby that Sethe lost. Beloved seems to be a spirit that came back to the house on 124 Bluestone Rd. She became the much needed sister/friend to Denver and the daughter to Sethe. She effected everyone that was living in the household(Paul D, too). She represented both good and evil. 2. The "sixty million or more" represents all the African Americans that suffered through slavery. 3. I don't think "Inequality under slavery" is the right way to phrase it. Not all slaves were treated the same but they were slaves none the less. Some slaves were treated as "property", some not a lot, were actually treated in some ways like a human. Slavery did have an effect on other social institutions. People's wealth was effected by how many slaves they had(property). A lot of families were broken up because of slavery. African American's didn't have any social aspects to their lives that they could count on. Brother, sister, husband, wife, aunt, uncle, and even friendship wasn't something the slaves could count on being there for long. They were eventually taken away from them. 4. Sethe and Paul both would of died for their freedom. Sethe even thought that death would be a safer way of living. Paul and Sethe didn't have the same experiences but they both experienced inequality and pain. Paul learned to shut out feelings and just do what is expected of him, while Sethe had to face being sexually abused. But both were abused not the less.

Thu Sep 10 14:37:26 PDT 1998

Daniel Brown brown060 responded:

1. In the book who is Beloved? What does she represent? Beloved is the uthenized infant of Sethe. She represents what they all wish they could be. She has soft feet and hands and dresses like a free woman and is free in many ways. I see that Sethe is having a hard time dealing with the fact that she killed her baby to provide for a better "life". I think that is part of the struggle of the book other than finding reason for living. 2. What do you think the dedication at the beginning of the book: "Sixty Million and more" refers to? The Sixty Million refers to the slaves affected in history and is Toni Morrison's ways of getting her readers and herself to recognize them and thier lives.3. What did "inequality" under slavery mean? Think about the institution of slavery--how it affected other social institutions, its impact on "rights," on human emotions and ties, on property. Inequality under slavery is a poor way describing of what happened. Slaves as I know the history were viewed as property. There was no equality except when viewed as property. The average slave owner traded and delt with slaves as a commodity. They were there for production and when production fell like any machine they were sold or traded. They were not seen as equals to the white human race and therefore did not have the chance to become equal when held under slave laws. The entire system lacked the view of slaves as being equal to there owners. This has altered the social structure of the entire world but dirtectly the United States. Social structure still in certain sectors of society revolves around the african american as being lesser than the caucasian majority. Property rights were shaped during the slave trade and still if researched these laws are on the "books" of many states. In regards to human ties the social structure that slavery developed as a secondary effect has made ties and or social behaviors that still are in place. Such things as songs, literature, art,everything still has roots in slave history especially within the black community.4. How far is the quest of "equality" a primary driving force for Sethe and for Paul D. I do not think the equality was a quest for either person. I think that survival was the major driving force behind them. Equality was a word that was not used in that period of history. Freedom was the word for that day. Was inequality under slavery experienced similarly by Sethe (as a woman) and by Paul D. (as a man)? No Inequality was different for the sexes based on what they did for work. I do not think that a women in prison would have to deal with what Paul had to do. I do not think that a man would get given a gift by his slave owners wife. Equality within the sexes even within slavery was different. The whole thing was bad very bad..... :)

Thu Sep 10 23:12:45 PDT 1998

Julie Schmidt juls@ix.netcom.com responded:

1) Beloved is the daughter that Sethe murdered. "Not only did she have to live out her years in a house palsied by the baby's fury at having it's throat cut..." She slashed the baby's throat. I think Beloved symbolizes freedom, both it's own and the rest of the family. The baby will always be free and not subject to any form of slavery, and in a sense the rest of the family will be free from slavery because of the brutal murder. Also, the baby's ghost seems like a constant reminder of Sethes sad past. On page 149, the when "the four horsemen came" to get Sethe the fugitive, they were confronted with the awful murder scene, and the schoolteacher noticed "there was nothing there to claim". It was felt that Sethe and her family could never make worthy slaves after the horrible occurance that day. 2) I think it refers to all of the other slaves who did not have books written about them, but suffered the humiliation and unjust institution of slavery. I think she wants to make clear that slavery went way beyond a 275 page novel, and convey the sheer numbers of slaves. 3) Inequality under slavery meant that you were not treated as humans, but rather as something your master owned. You had very few rights, and in some cases were treated no better than animals. On page 23 there is a passage that states; "..men and women were moved around like checkers. Anyone Baby Suggs knew, let alone loved, who hadn't run off or been hanged, got rented out, loaned out, bought up, brought back, stored up, mortgaged, won, stolen or seized." People were a commodity. Normal human social relations such as family and a circle of friends were almost impossible, because you never knew when someone would be sold or traded, and sometimes you didn't even get to say goodbye. So esentially slaves had to exist independent of their families, and often did not have the right to own any property so even if for some reason the family could be kept together, they could not create a home. 4) I think that as far as a driving force for Sethe and Paul D., equality was something they didn't really expect or search for. Being free from opression and abuse was their driving force. Being a woman had more harsh experiences I think because men would take what they wanted from the female slaves, often raping or sexually abusing them and thinking nothing of it because the women were their "property".

Fri Sep 11 19:02:19 PDT 1998

Anthony Simpson hombredelsol@earthlink.net responded:

1. Beloved is the rebirth of Sethe'e dead daughter. She represents the loss of youth and familial bonds that slaves expreienced and the resurgence of emotions and issues that had been locked away within the characters for nearly 20 years. 2. The dedication refers to the slaves and their descendants. 3. Inequality under slavery meant the rendering of the slaves on the level of the animals. Its effects were all encompassing. Slave owners were consumed by distrust and were made less human by the effects of slavery. The social institutions of marriage, family and religion were deliberately disrupted by the slave owners. Slaves, of course, could not on property but the owners were totally dependent on the slaves they did not trust and portrayed as incompetent for the maintainance of their property and incomes. 4. Sethe longed for equality so much that she killed her own child so that she would grow up as a slave. Sethe's inequality deprived of family ties and eventually would have robbed her of her children. Sethe did not understand why she could not have a wedding or how her "animal" characteristics could be different from other people's. To Paul D. equality was freedom from being owned. Even though he was respected as a "Sweet Home Man" he was still not free and subject to be sold, beaten, placed in a box or to feel lower than a rooster. He understood that he was a slave like all others only in a nicer place. His lesson was driven home during the attempted escape and thereafter in Alfred, Georgia. His quest for equality led him to harden his heart and to avoid commitments to avoid loosing his manhood again.

Sun Sep 13 16:55:36 PDT 1998

Carol Schirm schir001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. From the book of Matthew 5:4-10 comes the quote: Those who are sad now are happy, Because God will comfort them. Those who are humble are happy, Because the earth will belong to them. Those who want to do right more than anything else are happy, Because God will fully satisfy them. Those wo show mercy to others are happy, Because God will show mercy to them Those who are pure in their thinking are happy, Because they will be with God. Those who work to bring peace are happy, Because God will call them his children. Those who are treated badly for doing good are happy, Because the kingdom of heaven belongs to them. The reference to "Beloved" (Romans 9:25) orginally referred to the unsaved people who did not fit the religious group in power at the time of writings of the Bible. This reference has been futher expanded to peoples who choose to do good, despite reasons to do otherwise, believing in promises from God that claims them as his own. I agree with another person in the salon who feels that Beloved represents the people each has lost. To Sethe she is her lost child, to Denver the sibling who has not been taken from her. Because the bond is made from the need of the spirit, where Beloved was actually conceived seems immaterial. I also agree with the person who said that, beloved represents the blameless sacraficed for the sake of freedom, their own and others. 2. I'm hoping that the dedication "Sixty Million and more" refers not only to the period of time in the United States where inequality of people took the form of institutionalized slavery, but also the continued situations today where inhumanity to peoples are justified by systems built upon the concept of inequality. 3. Inequality under slavery, I would think, was very similiar to what the British had done in their own country years before with the feudal system which included surfs and masters. Also, throughout history in many countries, the conquered nationals when coming under the power of a new ruler were often denied human rights. In the United States under slavery, people were not given acess to anything that would have made them independent such as 1. access to means of producing an income, 2.reconition and access to the govt. 3. access to the institution of family (this tactique is still used today to demoralize oppostion to the existing system and to avoid any group bonding which eventually could lead to a group uprising.) 4. Sethe and Paul D. both have different physical experiences to the institution of slavery. The generalized purpose of their experiences seem to be the same, to demoralize them into submission to a certain role in an unfair economic system.

Sun Sep 13 20:56:25 PDT 1998

Jim Currey curreys@mailhost2.csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved is the spirit of the baby girl that Sethe murdered at 124 Bluestone Road. She represents the good and evil in the lives of the characters in the book and the hardships and evils in the results of slavery. 2. The "Sixty Million and more" refers to the millions of slaves and their descendants that have endured inequality and repression. 3. Many considered the enslaved Aficans as "not human", therefore, the difference in the way slaveowners treated their "property" would determine the inequality of their lives. It is true that most slaves were treated extremely bad and only used as tools of the Southern agricultural system,some slaves were treated as valuable commodities and enjoyed ceretain "rights" as humans. Rights that today that we take for granted: food, clothing and shelter. Some were educated and given their freedom. The inequality of slaves was shown in the book by the way they were treated at Sweet Home and the way they were treated by the schoolteacher and the way Paul D was treated in prison in Georgia. Slavery affected the institution of family. Men and women were used to breed and then never saw their offspring grow up. Sense of family was not possible. It left many emotionally bankrupt. Of course, many owned no property because they were property! With the institution of slavery, society as a whole suffered. Think of a ten-year-old white boy treating a grown black slave like a piece of dirt. Think how a young black girl was treated by rowdy white boys. Some of this behavior is still happening 150 years after slavery was ended. Our society is stuck in a quagmire of racial inequality. 4.I don't know if the quest for equality was as big of a driving force as the quest of freedom for Sethe and Paul D. They wanted freedom of the effects of slavery. They wanted freedom from the demons in their lives. They both experiened inequality just by being slaves. the differences could be in the amount of punishment they suffered. I dont know how to compare being sexually abused and beaten and being made to live in a trench with bars over the top and forced to do hard labor all day. The emotional and mental abuse has to be similiar. They both knew "their place" even after they were "free" as Toni Morrison shows on page 129 when approaching four women on the wooden walkway, "Paul D touched Sethe's elbow to guide her as they stepped from the slats to the dirt to let the women pass."

Sun Sep 13 21:24:07 PDT 1998

Anne Chambers chamb012@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. At one point when the only people who had seen Beloved were Sethe and Denver, I thought she was figment of their imagination. By the time Beloved Arrives, I believe Sethe has lost her mind from the guilt of killing her child. But when Paul D. sees her and then Stamp Paid, I began to believe she was the ghost of Sethe's child, killed by Sethe. She manifests during a time when Sethe is vulnerable and weak. Paul D. had just arrived and Beloved tried to scare from 124 Bluestone as she had all others. Paul D.'s apotropaic gesture of smashing the table and dishes made her realize that he wasn't going to leave. She had to "come to life" to MAKE Sethe pay attention to her. Beloved comes to Sethe to make her "pay" for what she had done. She makes Sethe think only about her and slowly robs her of her mind and strengths. She makes Denver see the sister she missed. Beloved pushes Denver further and further away from Sethe, stealing all Sethe's love, time, and energy for herself. 2. The "Sixty Million and More" refers to the number of slaves. Toni Morrison wrote this book and dedicated it to them because this could have been a story about any one of them. 3. Slaves lost all rights afforded to humans. Even the most vile white woman had more rights than a black man or woman. Under slavery, slaves wre not allowed to learn to read or write. They were not allowed religious freedom. The "negro spirituals" were made up to be work songs. They could sing their glory to God while working. Slaves could not be married. This would make them human which, to the whites, they were not. The slaves were property with which the owners could do what they willed. This "property" could be sold, beaten, broken, or killed as the owner saw fit. They did not like to kill a slave since he/she could produce some work, unless that slave had become unmanageable as Sixo had become. Halle also died because he caused more trouble to the owner than he was worth. 4. The quest for "equality" or freedom is so great for Sethe that she endures the most horrific events. She was raped while pregnant. The rapists dug a hole for her stomach to protect the baby which was valuable property to keep or sell. They both risked their lives by escaping. However, Sethe went to the extreme by murdering Beloved, her "crawling already? baby" to keep her from being captured into slavery. I believe she would have killed Denver and then committed suicide had she had more time. Death was far better than captivity. Inequality for the sexes among slaves was experienced. Sethe was a child-bearing woman, thus making her very valuable for the owner. the both had to work hard, but a woman was expected to give up her children. Paul D. and Sethe saw atrocities to their family and friends and felt the sorrow deeply, but went on with life because they knew no better. But after escaping for a short time, they felt the sweetness of freedom (however free an escaped slave could have felt.) They knew they could never go back.

Mon Sep 14 07:10:47 PDT 1998

Christina Glady glady001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1.Beloved is the daughter of Sethe and the older sister of Denver. As a baby she was murdered by her mother. Her mother Sethe wanted to protect her from the harsh life that she had in slavery so she murdered her. She slit her throat. Beloved then comes back as a ghost. When she is in the form of a ghost she is a child and yet an adult. Some of the things that she does is babyish. For instance at times she soils her shoes and breaks out into baby talk all of a sudden. At other times she acts like an adult. The whole situation with her is strange. For instance she has an affair with the man that her mother loves. She represents the past. The past that they wanted to forget. Beloved seems like she comes back to haunt them. She brings up a lot of stuff from the past that they were trying to leave in the past. She seemed to be a lot of heartache for the family. For instance her putting the moves on Paul D. made a strain on the relationship with him and Sethe. Beloved also brought back Sethes’ memories of the past where she was attacked by boys. ( where they attacked her breast) For Denver Beloved represents fear. At first they got a long as if they were friends and then beloved started to act strange and Denver started getting scarred. For the most part she represented hurt and pain. She was suffering with hurt and pain and she caused others hurt and pain by bringing up the past. 2.The dedication in the begging of the book “ Sixty Million and more” refers to the millions of people that were trapped in slavery. They were stuck in slavery for many years and had to deal with the pain that this book explains. 3.The slaves really didn’t have any rights. They had to do what there owners said. They put up with a lot of abuse and they were mistreated. Inequality under slavery to me means the way that the different slaves were treated. Even though they were all items that were bought and sold some of them were treated better then others. There were some of the slaves that had to plant and pick and were beaten and abused. While others got to do kitchen work and they were more friendly with their owners. They really did not have any rights. They had to put up with the abuse. Many of them were beaten, raped , assaulted and killed. Even when slavery ended they still had to deal with the emotional effects that slavery had left them with. They had to live with the nightmares of their past. Those nightmares probably stayed with them until they died. The abuse that they had to deal with was awful. While in slavery they could not own land, but when they were freed they could own land, but they were never really treated as if they were free. Even when they were free and had rights many people did not except the fact that they were free. People treated them as if they did not belong. 4. For Sethe and Paul D equality is far off. Even though they may be free from slavery they will not be treated as an equal. In our society we see white as dominant and powerful and we look down on other races. We do not allow them to have the same rights as us. Even though they should have the same rights people treat them as if they are different. That should not be the case, but it is. Everyone should have the same rights, but it is not likely that everyone will be treated that way. Equality moves slowly in this society. Currently we say that everyone is equal, but if you look around you see that some people have more rights then others. When it comes down to it Paul D. would get more equal rights before Sethe because she is a male and males dominate our society. They were both treated unfair. Sethe put up with a lot especially emotionally. I think that Sethe had a harder time emotionally. She had to deal with her children and the lost of her children.

Mon Sep 14 07:11:07 PDT 1998

Christina Glady glady001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1.Beloved is the daughter of Sethe and the older sister of Denver. As a baby she was murdered by her mother. Her mother Sethe wanted to protect her from the harsh life that she had in slavery so she murdered her. She slit her throat. Beloved then comes back as a ghost. When she is in the form of a ghost she is a child and yet an adult. Some of the things that she does is babyish. For instance at times she soils her shoes and breaks out into baby talk all of a sudden. At other times she acts like an adult. The whole situation with her is strange. For instance she has an affair with the man that her mother loves. She represents the past. The past that they wanted to forget. Beloved seems like she comes back to haunt them. She brings up a lot of stuff from the past that they were trying to leave in the past. She seemed to be a lot of heartache for the family. For instance her putting the moves on Paul D. made a strain on the relationship with him and Sethe. Beloved also brought back Sethes’ memories of the past where she was attacked by boys. ( where they attacked her breast) For Denver Beloved represents fear. At first they got a long as if they were friends and then beloved started to act strange and Denver started getting scarred. For the most part she represented hurt and pain. She was suffering with hurt and pain and she caused others hurt and pain by bringing up the past. 2.The dedication in the begging of the book “ Sixty Million and more” refers to the millions of people that were trapped in slavery. They were stuck in slavery for many years and had to deal with the pain that this book explains. 3.The slaves really didn’t have any rights. They had to do what there owners said. They put up with a lot of abuse and they were mistreated. Inequality under slavery to me means the way that the different slaves were treated. Even though they were all items that were bought and sold some of them were treated better then others. There were some of the slaves that had to plant and pick and were beaten and abused. While others got to do kitchen work and they were more friendly with their owners. They really did not have any rights. They had to put up with the abuse. Many of them were beaten, raped , assaulted and killed. Even when slavery ended they still had to deal with the emotional effects that slavery had left them with. They had to live with the nightmares of their past. Those nightmares probably stayed with them until they died. The abuse that they had to deal with was awful. While in slavery they could not own land, but when they were freed they could own land, but they were never really treated as if they were free. Even when they were free and had rights many people did not except the fact that they were free. People treated them as if they did not belong. 4. For Sethe and Paul D equality is far off. Even though they may be free from slavery they will not be treated as an equal. In our society we see white as dominant and powerful and we look down on other races. We do not allow them to have the same rights as us. Even though they should have the same rights people treat them as if they are different. That should not be the case, but it is. Everyone should have the same rights, but it is not likely that everyone will be treated that way. Equality moves slowly in this society. Currently we say that everyone is equal, but if you look around you see that some people have more rights then others. When it comes down to it Paul D. would get more equal rights before Sethe because she is a male and males dominate our society. They were both treated unfair. Sethe put up with a lot especially emotionally. I think that Sethe had a harder time emotionally. She had to deal with her children and the lost of her children.

Mon Sep 14 07:11:13 PDT 1998

Christina Glady glady001@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1.Beloved is the daughter of Sethe and the older sister of Denver. As a baby she was murdered by her mother. Her mother Sethe wanted to protect her from the harsh life that she had in slavery so she murdered her. She slit her throat. Beloved then comes back as a ghost. When she is in the form of a ghost she is a child and yet an adult. Some of the things that she does is babyish. For instance at times she soils her shoes and breaks out into baby talk all of a sudden. At other times she acts like an adult. The whole situation with her is strange. For instance she has an affair with the man that her mother loves. She represents the past. The past that they wanted to forget. Beloved seems like she comes back to haunt them. She brings up a lot of stuff from the past that they were trying to leave in the past. She seemed to be a lot of heartache for the family. For instance her putting the moves on Paul D. made a strain on the relationship with him and Sethe. Beloved also brought back Sethes’ memories of the past where she was attacked by boys. ( where they attacked her breast) For Denver Beloved represents fear. At first they got a long as if they were friends and then beloved started to act strange and Denver started getting scarred. For the most part she represented hurt and pain. She was suffering with hurt and pain and she caused others hurt and pain by bringing up the past. 2.The dedication in the begging of the book “ Sixty Million and more” refers to the millions of people that were trapped in slavery. They were stuck in slavery for many years and had to deal with the pain that this book explains. 3.The slaves really didn’t have any rights. They had to do what there owners said. They put up with a lot of abuse and they were mistreated. Inequality under slavery to me means the way that the different slaves were treated. Even though they were all items that were bought and sold some of them were treated better then others. There were some of the slaves that had to plant and pick and were beaten and abused. While others got to do kitchen work and they were more friendly with their owners. They really did not have any rights. They had to put up with the abuse. Many of them were beaten, raped , assaulted and killed. Even when slavery ended they still had to deal with the emotional effects that slavery had left them with. They had to live with the nightmares of their past. Those nightmares probably stayed with them until they died. The abuse that they had to deal with was awful. While in slavery they could not own land, but when they were freed they could own land, but they were never really treated as if they were free. Even when they were free and had rights many people did not except the fact that they were free. People treated them as if they did not belong. 4. For Sethe and Paul D equality is far off. Even though they may be free from slavery they will not be treated as an equal. In our society we see white as dominant and powerful and we look down on other races. We do not allow them to have the same rights as us. Even though they should have the same rights people treat them as if they are different. That should not be the case, but it is. Everyone should have the same rights, but it is not likely that everyone will be treated that way. Equality moves slowly in this society. Currently we say that everyone is equal, but if you look around you see that some people have more rights then others. When it comes down to it Paul D. would get more equal rights before Sethe because she is a male and males dominate our society. They were both treated unfair. Sethe put up with a lot especially emotionally. I think that Sethe had a harder time emotionally. She had to deal with her children and the lost of her children.

Mon Sep 14 21:19:12 PDT 1998

Louise Basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

1) Beloved is Sethe’s child whom she had murdered for her child’s own good. Sethe remembers her childhood and the horrible years of growing up. She murdered her child out of love. She did not want her child to have go through the pain and suffering that she did and the world was still such a hateful place. Beloved represents the only happiness Sethe ever knew. Beloved was so peaceful and so innocent. Yet, if she were to grow up in this world, she would be nothing but someone’s property. Sethe’s innocence was lost a long time ago, not by choice but by slavery, her life no longer hers. 2) Sixty Million and more is referencing to the "Sixty Million" slaves who had to play a role in this part of history, nobody want s to have to go through. Toni has dedicated her work to those people who had feared the worst, all of their lives. 3) Inequality under slavery, refers to exactly what it says. Even slaves were treated unequally. There was no equality during slavery, no slaves were given any rights. They were stripped of their self confidence and of any dignity they had, if they had any. It all depended on who "owned" the slaves during this period of time, they were treated differently. Paul D, for instance, was treated different than Sethe was. Was it because males and females were actually divided into two separate groups? Did women get away with more than men, perhaps because of their children? It seems as if women got perhaps, a bit more, of a chance in life. We can read it in books and we can see what the television and movies have to offer us, but what we need to realize is that, unless we were there, we will never know what these slaves had to experience. 4) Sethe and Paul D were very lucky to have found the Garners, or vice versa. As lucky as they could be during this time period. It is a stretch to even say the word, "equality" during slavery. Sethe and Paul D experienced inequality , even with the Garners. Paul D was a very strong men, he stuck up for what he believed in, freedom. He had been through a lot while he was in prison, no man should ever have to go through. Sethe, I believe, did not have to go through the same grief Paul D did, perhaps because she was a woman. She was a bit more fortunate. The only similarity between the two was the courage they both had, to stay alive no matter have evil the world became. They fought the best they could and never gave up.

Mon Sep 14 23:33:32 PDT 1998

Andrew Fritzinger Latigo@pe.net responded:

1. Beloved appears to represent a ghost of the baby that was killed during the earlier period. However it is possible that this Beloved who returns during a later time may actually be a real person. This person may be a wanderer from one fo the emancipated plantations however the weight of Beloved's death weighs so heavy on Sethe's mind that Beloved in translated onto this person. Beloved appears to represent the fact that the past does play an active role on the present and that Sethe must deal with it no matter what circumstances she already has to face. 3. Inequality under slavery where two different things for the white-man and the Negro. To the white-man inequality was not being represented fairly by your leaders. To the black-man it represented being treated as sub-human as an animal condemned to labor for all of life. Inequality was not simply being seen as lower but being seen as not-human.2. Sixty million more simply reprensents that this ammount of people had the same experience as Sethe, Paul D, Denver and the other characters of Beloved. Morrison doesn't want you to think that this happened exclusively to the characters. She uses this phrase to remind us that every slave had a similar experience. 4. Unfortunately poverty dominated the emancipated peoples for decades after the War and seeing how the characters were acting in the story it seems that they were only concerned about survival and probably didn't have much faith in equality becoming a reality. A woman probably experienced less accountability as a slave by her master since she was a woman and was seen as the weaker sex. However women were taken advantage of more often because of the same reason. This could even include physical and sexual abuse. Men however were sometimes feared to cause an uprising since they were seen as stronger, so physical abuse was probably less for them, However since they were stronger, the were expected to work harder.

Tue Sep 15 13:54:38 PDT 1998

Ledia Flores lediaflor@hotmail.com responded:

1) I disagree with those who say that Beloved is human. Although she is described as one, she is not and she is NOT beloved neither. I believe she is not only Sethe's conscience but Denver's, Paul D.'s, and society's. She represents slavery and by that I mean, she is greety, controlling, demanding, etc. Morrison says "... Beloved ... made demands. Anything she wanted she got, and when Sethe ran out of things to give her, Beloved INVENTED desire," and so right there we can see that she was SOMETHING out of control. She fed herself on the ignorance of those who accepted her just like those individuals who became slave owners not quite knowing nor understanding the concept and consequences of such a practice. 2) The dedication could be referring to the millions of people affected by slavery and could be including whites as well as blacks. I believe that because of Morrison saying that they are not her people. 3) "Inequality" under slavery could have meant violation of the basic human rights that every individual is born with. Rights which are violated when slavery is practiced because slavery reduces individuals to a sub-human status. Slavery affected all of society's institutions: communities, families, and individual. As far as human emotions, there was no room for it. Whites as well as blacks could not afford to have them; the price was too high. For whites, having emotions probably meant allowing their conscience dictate their actions; for blacks, it probably meant that the less they allow themselves to feel, the less they would suffer. If they pretended not to feel, then they would not be hurt by any of their actions. 4) The quest for "equality" was one that drove them to extremes. Paul D. endured all the abuse that a human being could endure, all just to be free and make decisions for himself. And Sethe commited murder before allowing her children to suffer through slavery. Yes, I believe inequality had to be different for women and men. Men were more likely to go through what Paul D. went through while women through what Sethe was subjected to. Women's bodies were violated not just for the enjoyment of their masters but for procreation of more slaves; women were actually treated like cattle.

Tue Sep 15 13:55:14 PDT 1998

Ledia Flores lediaflor@hotmail.com responded:

1) I disagree with those who say that Beloved is human. Although she is described as one, she is not and she is NOT beloved neither. I believe she is not only Sethe's conscience but Denver's, Paul D.'s, and society's. She represents slavery and by that I mean, she is greety, controlling, demanding, etc. Morrison says "... Beloved ... made demands. Anything she wanted she got, and when Sethe ran out of things to give her, Beloved INVENTED desire," and so right there we can see that she was SOMETHING out of control. She fed herself on the ignorance of those who accepted her just like those individuals who became slave owners not quite knowing nor understanding the concept and consequences of such a practice. 2) The dedication could be referring to the millions of people affected by slavery and could be including whites as well as blacks. I believe that because of Morrison saying that they are not her people. 3) "Inequality" under slavery could have meant violation of the basic human rights that every individual is born with. Rights which are violated when slavery is practiced because slavery reduces individuals to a sub-human status. Slavery affected all of society's institutions: communities, families, and individual. As far as human emotions, there was no room for it. Whites as well as blacks could not afford to have them; the price was too high. For whites, having emotions probably meant allowing their conscience dictate their actions; for blacks, it probably meant that the less they allow themselves to feel, the less they would suffer. If they pretended not to feel, then they would not be hurt by any of their actions. 4) The quest for "equality" was one that drove them to extremes. Paul D. endured all the abuse that a human being could endure, all just to be free and make decisions for himself. And Sethe commited murder before allowing her children to suffer through slavery. Yes, I believe inequality had to be different for women and men. Men were more likely to go through what Paul D. went through while women through what Sethe was subjected to. Women's bodies were violated not just for the enjoyment of their masters but for procreation of more slaves; women were actually treated like cattle.

Tue Sep 15 19:28:54 PDT 1998

Rita Danskin lakegrove@aol.com responded:

I agree with everyone else that Beloved is Sethe¹s euthanized baby. As to whether or not she is a ghost, I believe that is one of the advantages of the printed word--we don¹t need to know. I think Beloved is very real--as a symbol. As to what she represents, I assumed that she represented, as many other people have said, everyone who was lost to slavery. But then when I read Anne Chambers comment that maybe Beloved came back to ³get her due,² or to make Sethe suffer for what she had done, it made me stop and think that I should not simply accept the obvious. All of this made me wonder where the name Sethe came from. The male ³Seth² was the third son of Adam and because of Morrison¹s other biblical references, I tried to make a connection--to no avail! Anyone else have any ideas? [During this process, I couldn¹t help but notice the name ³Sixo² may be suspiciously connected to the 60 million in the book¹s dedication....?? ] Anyhow, back to Beloved. I think that maybe she is what you can¹t run away from. She represents everyone¹s past with all its goodness, wickedness, and confusion. This book is packed with symbolism and deserves multiple readings. (Wish I had the time!) As to the book¹s dedication, I agree that Morrison is referring to people who were, and/or still are enslaved. Slavery, by its definition implies inequality. When one person can own another, there is certainly inequality. I believe one of the most unfortunate things that happened as a result of emancipation was that all of the former slaves were now thrown into an environment where they were to be treated as equals but because they had not been allowed an education, there was no way they could compete. Add to that the fact that they were still reeling from the emotions of being enslaved for so long, it was bound to be a long, hard, road to ³equality.² On this first reading, I don¹t see that ³equality² is a primary driving force for either Sethe or Paul D. Am I missing something? I agree with several other students who believe that the primary driving force is survival. I can see that if Sethe and Paul D were to stop and look to the future, they might look for equality, but their struggle for survival keeps them too occupied to look to the future. The inequality suffered by Sethe under slavery was different than that experienced by Paul D; it was no less horrible, but it was different. It was different in part, because she was a woman, but also because she had received some education and was therefore more aware of the meaning of freedom. She felt the inequality even more because she brought new lives into this world of slavery and felt a responsibility to protect them from the abuse she, her family, and friends had suffered.

Tue Sep 15 21:23:07 PDT 1998

jeff basford jlbasford@earthlink.net responded:

1. Beloved is the two year old, "crawling already" baby that Sethe killed when the Schoolteacher came to take it and her sons away and bring them back to be slaves at Sweet Home. Sethe killed her Beloved to save her from the physical suffering she had endured while a slave. If she could not have her baby, she could have her baby's spirit. ---- 2. The Two Million or more Toni Morrison dedicates this book to refers to the men and women who endured slavery. ---- 3. Slaves were treated as animals, there were valued for the work they could perform and the children they could, as the Schoolteacher described it, "breed" to perform more work. They were allowed no personal freedoms, their children were not their own, they could be bought or sold, they we very often driven to insanity. The equality that is denied them is that of being treated as humans, equal on the most basic level. ---- 4. Equality I don't think they were searching for equality as much as for freedom from the Inequality imposed on them by the white men. Each experienced inequal treatment in different ways, however, Sethe's suffering was much more personal. While Paul D. suffered physically, he was beaten and worked near to death during his enslavement, Sethe suffered emotionally. Control over Her body, her children, and her lovers was not hers, she could not protect them.

Tue Sep 15 21:33:20 PDT 1998

sheila morrison cdckidzmom@aol.com responded:

1) In this book Beloved is character, a young woman, who appears from out of nowhere and enters the lives of Sethe, Denver, and Paul D.. The references to the diamond earrings, and the fact that her name was Beloved, the only thing Sethe was able to put on her headstone, leads to the conclusion that this character must be the embodiment of the baby Sethe had killed. Previous to Paul D. coming into Sethe's life, the Baby's ghost was content living in the house unencumbered by a body. Then Paul D. drove the ghost out. Soon after that is when Beloved appeared. The scene in which she comes out of the water is very symbolic. It is as if she is experiencing rebirth. The struggle and pain as she emerges, the shallow breathing, and the short intervals between waking and sleeping, all characteristics of the birth of a baby. Another interesting addition by the author is that of Sethe's reaction to the rebirth of Beloved; her filled bladder, (like that of a pregnant woman), and losing her water in front of the outhouse, (like the breaking of the bag of waters before delivery). Beloved is obviously the representation of Sethe's dead baby girl. 2) "Sixty Million and more seems to be a dedication to all those slaves that suffered the same injustices that are spelled out in the pages of this novel. It serves as reminder that although this novel is fiction, many people endured things like these and even worse. 3) Inequality under slavery meant much more than what we would consider inequality to mean today. Inequality under slavery meant inhumanity; this is touched on when the schoolteacher refers to the "animal like" qualities of Sethe. The slaves in this book were nowhere near striving for equality, they were striving for dignity. The institutions such as marriage, family, religion were barely afforded to them in any form. The basic "rights" due to any human being were not afforded to the slaves. They were not even allowed to keep there own children. When a woman feels driven to kill her own child to keep her from being taken into slavery it becomes obvious that a basic right is being violated. Not only were these slaves not given any rights to property they were treated as property. 4) Again, I feel that the characters in this story were no where near the quest for equality, they were striving merely for a shot at humanity. Although Sethe and Paul D. experienced the same basic types of inequality under slavery, as a man and a woman they experienced much differently. Paul, being a man, had his dignity trampled on when he was yoked like an animal, and Sethe was treated like a cow when her milk was taken from her. There are several other times in the story where these two experience the same type of humiliation just instituted by different means.

Tue Sep 15 22:02:53 PDT 1998

Kathy Johnson Eric21@home.com responded:

1. Sethe believes that Beloved is her daughter who died as a baby by Sethe's own hand. Beloved could be a ghost or a spirit, or figment of Sethe's imagination so real to her that she becomes real to all who have been a part of Sethe's and Beloved's tragedy. I think Beloved represents Sethe's yearning for this daughter and guilt over causing her death and deep need for being understood by her daughter whose only name we know her by is Beloved. Sethe wants this daughter to understand that she killed her to save her from what Sethe believed was a far worse fate, a living death of the soul due to a lifetime of being disregarded as a human being. Sethe's other daughter has always been known by here given name "Denver" but the older baby girl has only been called the "crawling already? baby girl". This daughter who died at Sethe's hand and was not her beloved during that act (Romans 9:25), becomes Sether's Beloved in the ensuing years of depression and yearning for her. 2. At first I thought Toni Morrison in her dedication "Sixty million and more" could have been referring to the number of slaves in the United States during the Civil War, and perhaps that was her intent. But when I researched this I found there were far fewer slaves, about 4 million in 1860. The oldest census records I could find show the population of the U.S. in 1900 at 76 million. I believe, therefore, that the 60 million and more refers to the entire U.S. population in about 1870 which was probably close to 60 million and the later period of time in which this story takes place. I believe that when one part of a population is enslaved, then in a very real sense, the entire population is enslaved. It requires a form of slavery of the spirit and narrowness of thinking, not to mention a tremendous amount of time and effort to keep another population in slavery, whether that slavery by physical or emotional and social. 3. Inequality under slavery not only restricted the lives of the slaves, it restricted the lives of the owners and all who bought into the concept of slavery. Obviously for the slaves having no rights as a human being and being regarded only as a piece of property to be used and abused, even under "kind" management was totally degrading and hopeless. Although physically much better off, the slaveowners and others who benefited from slavery such as merchants, slave traders, still led restricted live. When one's focus and culture is dependent on in keeping, and devising ways to keep other enslaved, there is not the time or scope to develop ideas and creative processes. Although slavery conditions with the Garners at Sweet Home was certainly better than under other slave owners where their treatment was "fair", still they were human beings being enslaved by others. Learning to read, to think and have ideas was forbidden. Slaves could not own land, choose who to marry, where or what to work, or raise their own children - they could not own theirself - and that is the ultimate inequality. 4. Equality (and freedom) for both Sethe and Paul D. was important, so important in fact, that they each were willing to risk everything to find it - even when they did not know exactly in which direction to go, or who to trust, and even when plans went completely wrong - they still kept going towards freedom and they hoped equality. For Sethe equality was the chance to see and appreciate everyday things - the color of the sky or a vegetable - just as it was for Baby Suggs. The goal of equality kept Paul D. going through being caught and imprisoned more than once, through terrible living conditions in cages in the ground and through not even knowing where he was headed. Inequality under slavery carried different connotations for men and women. As a slave, a woman was available to be raped by the slaveowner and by the slaves as well. Men under slavery when punished were punished more severely and killed more often than women under slavery.

Wed Sep 16 11:54:22 PDT 1998

Estella Gallagher galla002 responded:

1. I believe Beloved to be Sethe's daughter that was murdered so as to keep her from the evils of slavery. Coming back, she forces Sethe to confront her past by constantly asking to hear stories. She may have come to put Sethe at ease with her decision to take her daughters life, for Beloved was free from a past filled with terror, pain, and inequality. Rather, on her return, she was admired for her new, clean shoes, nice dress, and pleasant character; things which likely would not have been a part of her persona had she suffered through the institution of slavery. Beloved fills a void in the lives of the 2 women who live in the house; giving Sethe back her daughter and Denver, not only a sister, but a friend. 2."Sixty Million and more" refers to the millions of African Americans who were forced to live through the inhumanity of slavery. 3&4. Under slavery, "inequality," to the white man meant justice. They felt African Americans were inferior creatures who were meant to live among the circumstances they were forced with. They, the superior, felt it their divine right to have slaves as property. Of course not all citizens of the era felt the same, but being the norm, on the whole, slavery was not viewed as an inequality, rather as the way things were meant to be. The African Americans saw inequality as the dehuminization of their people. Complete equality was likely something rarely fathomed by blacks for it was such a far fetched concept. I feel that what they searched for was freedom; freedom to live life as humans and not as posessions. Sethe and Paul faced slavery in many of the same ways, however, I personally feel that women had it harder because of the constant threat of rape from both white and black men.

Wed Sep 16 18:11:02 PDT 1998

Beth Carson BCarson222@aol.com responded:

1. Beloved is the spirit or ghost that lives in the house at 124. She was the crawling already? baby daughter of Sethe and Halle that Sethe murdered to protect her from a lifetime of servitude as a slave. She later took the form of a human to come back and take her place in the family and get the attention she so desparately needed from Sethe. I think she represents all the unrest of all those who served their lives as slaves without ever really having a chance at life. She was murdered as a small baby so she never had a chance, but I believe those who were sold or born into slavery never truly had a chance at life either. 2. "Sixty million and more" refers to the enormous numbers of human beings who suffered torture, humiliation, rape, abuse, and countless cruelties as slaves to the white people. 3. Inequality under slavery to me means black vs. white. Whites were owners, blacks were property to be bought and sold, used up and disposed of. Slavery was part of everyday life, different rules applied to them. They only had what little rights were given to them by their owners. Their loved ones were sold off, ran off, or were lynched for whatever reason, so keeping a family together was not very realistic to them. They had no property, no education, no public place to socialize or worship. They were afraid to trust or to love anyone to much for fear that person would soon disappear from their life. The institution of slavery negatively affected the lives of the slaves in every aspect imaginable. 4. Sethe and Paul D. shared a past at Sweet Home that they tried to forget. Their quest together became one of trying to find some happiness, trying to survive with their freedom, trying to learn to love someone and believe in something again. JThere were some things that were similiar in their inequalities, but mostly it was totally different. Sethe cooked, cleaned, gardened, she was sexually abused by the boys with the mossy teeth, she suffered at her family being torn apart, not knowing where they were or if they were even still alive or not. Paul D. suffered more manual labor, horrible living conditions, shackles and iron bits in his mouth to get him to conform to whatever the white men wanted him to do and he suffered physical abuse. Millions of people suffered for a lifetime, and the only reason was the color of their skin.

Wed Sep 16 20:30:45 PDT 1998

Britton Hill hillsrus@ix.netcom.com responded:

1. Beloved is the manifestation of the ghost of Sethe's duaghter who she killed when threatened to be returned to slavery. Beloved represents the memory of slavery that Sethe struggles to forget. Sethe is literaly haunted by her past and what slavery has turned her into. 2. I tried looking up how many slaves were brought to america in an old history book it seemed to sugest around 8 million slaves were delivered to America, so i'm assuming that this number refers to the slaves and their decendents who suffered the horrors of slavery and the continued racial inequality experienced by afro-americans. 3.Inequality under slavery meant that who had no rights as a human being if you were even considered human, you were simply the property of someone else. The social institution hardest hit by slavery was the family. Slavery made it almost impossible for families to stay together and those who managed to stay together didn't feel like a family because their children and spouses belonged to a master who at any time could take members away or abuse them. Slavery ultimately caused the loss of self worth for afican americans. They were constantly dehuminized and violated and were powerless to stop it. This is seen with school teacher and his boys. 4.I'm not sure that "equality" was a driving force for Seth or Paul D.. I think they were both looking for more of a freedom than equality. The freedom to make their own decisions, to love, the freedom to have a desire and not have to ask permission to have it. I dont think inequality was experienced similarly by Sethe and Paul D. True they were both dehumanised and had no control over their bodies at certain points in the story but Sethe was not only inferior because she was black but also because she was a women in a male dominated society.

Wed Sep 16 21:49:14 PDT 1998

Debra Taft debnjeff@earthlink.net responded:

1. Beloved is plays two roles, first as a ghost and later she appears as a person. As a ghost she brings sadness to her mother and sister. Not only does she fill their home with great sadness but also leads to their isolation from the rest of society. Not willing to accept the haunting of the spirit Paul D. fights back leaving Beloved no choice but to take the form of a young woman and face her family. As a young woman she appears leaning against a stump by the steps of Sethe’s home. Beloved appears different than most colored woman. Though she is exhausted from her journey, she show’s no signs of having walked on her "new feet." Most colored woman, like Sethe, show the weathering of slavery. Beloved is very new and fresh, nothing like they had ever seen before. There were several little hints along the way that Beloved was Sethe’s daughter (ie: Sethe’s diamonds). 2. "Sixty Million and more" refers to all of the African Americans enslaved. 3. Slavery usually had a extremely negative connotation. The Garner’s treated their slaves "more like people" than most owners. There was still an inequality among the Garner’s and their slaves though. The slave families weren’t even allowed to stay together. Morrison describes how nurse maids nurse and care for the young while mothers work. Not only can families be separated at the owner’s discretion, but families that are together may find that they rarely see each other. Sethe rarely saw her mother because she seldom came home from work accept on Sundays when she slept all day. Slaves also had to ask their owner for permission to marry. There marriage consisted of her moving in with him. 4. "Equality" was the driving force allowing Sethe and Paul D. to have a focal point of hope. Even though "equality" wasn’t a real possibility at the time, it help them get through the tough times. In general inequality was the same for Sethe as it was for Paul D. There were differences based on their gender, but these differences could be seen as comparable. Sethe had to deal with sexual assaults from other men (ie: having her milk stolen). Paul D. had to deal with a bit, preventing himself from speaking.

Wed Sep 16 23:05:45 PDT 1998

Sally Fuentez fuent003@csusm.edu responded:

1. In the book, Beloved is Sethe's daughter who has returned in spirit to be the families savior. In the beginning, before Paul D. arrived, Sethe and Denver were numb to the world around them. The oppression they experienced made them fearful to love or to be close to anyone. When Beloved arrived, she brought joy and life back into 124. A quote from the book of Psalms 124: "If it had not been the LORD who was on our side, now may ISRAEL say; If it had not been the LORD who was on our side, when men rose up against us: Then they had swallowed us up quick, when their wrath was kindled against us: Then the waters had overwhelmed us, the stream had gone over our soul: Then the proud waters had gone over our soul. Blessed be the LORD, who hath not given us as a prey to their teeth. Our soul is escaped as a bird out of the snare of the fowlers: the snare is broken, and we are escaped. Our help is the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth." 2. The dedication at the beginning of the book "Sixty Million and more" refer to all the African-Americans who experienced unjustice in the past, present and future. 3. "Inequality" under slavery meant that African-Americans' had no rights. Sethe saw the only road to equality as death and therefore took her daughter's life. 4. It is hard to measure and compare the injustice that Paul D. and Sethe experienced in their lives. The both were beaten, sexually abused, driven to a state where they did not want to have any memories of their lives. They both experienced a loss that I could not even begin to imagine, their FREEDOM!

Wed Sep 16 23:49:00 PDT 1998

Bobbi Joyce Jones jnzn@mailexcite.com responded:

1. Beloved is the reincarnation of Seth's baby daughter, whom she killed. It is important to know that her name is self-given (not from Seth, but from Beloved herself). This self-naming is an attempt on Beloved's part to explain her own existence/non-existence. Her name implies (as in the biblical reference to Romans) that she deserves recognition, although it may be uncomfortable (also unhealthy) to embrace her. She is the representation of a life that Seth tries hard to forget. Her own death (prior life) was sacrificed to prevent a life of slavery and punishment. In that act, Seth's true maternal love was evident. Hence the overwhelming connection Beloved feels towards her mother, Seth. Beloved is the epitomy of love - she represents the good and the bad that love encompasses. The hurt and the joy. Joy because she was born within difficult circumstances (the plight to freedom). Painful because Seth felt that her death would save her from a life of further pain. Little does Beloved know (or acknowledge) but Seth had planned to exhibit the same love for each of her children, but was stopped. She would have killed them each, to give them a peaceful existence (perhaps on the other side) in a spiritual sense. 2. For some reason I am persuaded to believe that the dedication "Sixty Million and more" refers to the number of African (-Americans) that felt the effects of slavery. The generational members, ie (2nd generation until present day) who were effected either economically, socially (including the internalization of the inferiority complex, etc), politically, etc... I believe that Morrison is letting the world know that Slavery has a profound effect on the way that many continue to think. It was a disfunctional act, to say the least, that has (and will continue to have) serious effects on its decendants, and the rest of the wider society. 3. The term 'inequality' is too nice when refering to the effects of slavery on its victims. I am reminded of the narrative of Paul D and the bit in his mouth. It was almost enough to make one cry when the full comprehension of the comparison between himself and the red rooster was realized. To feel less than another human is one thing, but to feel less than an animal - a rooster, who's only goal in life is to mate (forcibly if necessary) with the hens. At least in his mating, his actions are rewarding two fold: 1) he contributes to the welfare of the farm in terms of creating a food subsidy (creating of eggs) or he is, in himself, a food source (edible), and 2) he contributes to the food source by creating other contributors to the food source (creating babies for consumption or procreation). But the African slaves and their decendents were treated inhumanly. Although a commodity, their offspring were stripped from them and sold - or they were used at studs on other plantations to create future commodities. They were unable to 'connect' with a family (ie mother, brother, sister, wife) for a long period of time because their services were so 'valuable.' 4. At this point in the story (up to pg 200) I am not convinced that both Seth and Paul D are exhibiting the same quest for equality. Seth seems to be content with not being a slave, but is very aware of the fact that she is not equal to others (her reference to her saviour, Amy Denver. Also her reference to other white women, Mrs. Garner for example) are clear indicators that she still knows her 'place' and will stay in at as long as she is not a slave. Which is a mentality that ironically enslaves her anyway. Paul D, on the other hand, seems to be a wanderer. Always looking for contentment but never satisfied. Far from the plantation, he still finds difficulty in commitment. The relationship that has always been diluded for him, I suppose. As a child he did not have a commitment with any adult figure, due to the attrocities of the slave auction. He has always been shifted from one place to another, so as an adult it is not surprising to find that he cannot fully commit to a woman as a mate (as he wishes that he could faithfully do with Seth). His inequality is two-fold as well, I suppose. He is unable to find equality with other men (Black & White, view his jealousy in regards to both Halle and Sixto...he wishes that he could be the type of men that they were, as if he is inferior to them in addition to the white men). He also cannot pledge equality with the concept of what a real man is: hence, having a sexual relationship with Beloved, in the home of Seth, under the suspicion that Beloved is somehow relatively connected to Seth).

Wed Sep 16 23:51:06 PDT 1998

Bobbi Joyce Jones jnzn@mailexcite.com responded:

1. Beloved is the reincarnation of Seth's baby daughter, whom she killed. It is important to know that her name is self-given (not from Seth, but from Beloved herself). This self-naming is an attempt on Beloved's part to explain her own existence/non-existence. Her name implies (as in the biblical reference to Romans) that she deserves recognition, although it may be uncomfortable (also unhealthy) to embrace her. She is the representation of a life that Seth tries hard to forget. Her own death (prior life) was sacrificed to prevent a life of slavery and punishment. In that act, Seth's true maternal love was evident. Hence the overwhelming connection Beloved feels towards her mother, Seth. Beloved is the epitomy of love - she represents the good and the bad that love encompasses. The hurt and the joy. Joy because she was born within difficult circumstances (the plight to freedom). Painful because Seth felt that her death would save her from a life of further pain. Little does Beloved know (or acknowledge) but Seth had planned to exhibit the same love for each of her children, but was stopped. She would have killed them each, to give them a peaceful existence (perhaps on the other side) in a spiritual sense. 2. For some reason I am persuaded to believe that the dedication "Sixty Million and more" refers to the number of African (-Americans) that felt the effects of slavery. The generational members, ie (2nd generation until present day) who were effected either economically, socially (including the internalization of the inferiority complex, etc), politically, etc... I believe that Morrison is letting the world know that Slavery has a profound effect on the way that many continue to think. It was a disfunctional act, to say the least, that has (and will continue to have) serious effects on its decendants, and the rest of the wider society. 3. The term 'inequality' is too nice when refering to the effects of slavery on its victims. I am reminded of the narrative of Paul D and the bit in his mouth. It was almost enough to make one cry when the full comprehension of the comparison between himself and the red rooster was realized. To feel less than another human is one thing, but to feel less than an animal - a rooster, who's only goal in life is to mate (forcibly if necessary) with the hens. At least in his mating, his actions are rewarding two fold: 1) he contributes to the welfare of the farm in terms of creating a food subsidy (creating of eggs) or he is, in himself, a food source (edible), and 2) he contributes to the food source by creating other contributors to the food source (creating babies for consumption or procreation). But the African slaves and their decendents were treated inhumanly. Although a commodity, their offspring were stripped from them and sold - or they were used at studs on other plantations to create future commodities. They were unable to 'connect' with a family (ie mother, brother, sister, wife) for a long period of time because their services were so 'valuable.' 4. At this point in the story (up to pg 200) I am not convinced that both Seth and Paul D are exhibiting the same quest for equality. Seth seems to be content with not being a slave, but is very aware of the fact that she is not equal to others (her reference to her saviour, Amy Denver. Also her reference to other white women, Mrs. Garner for example) are clear indicators that she still knows her 'place' and will stay in at as long as she is not a slave. Which is a mentality that ironically enslaves her anyway. Paul D, on the other hand, seems to be a wanderer. Always looking for contentment but never satisfied. Far from the plantation, he still finds difficulty in commitment. The relationship that has always been diluded for him, I suppose. As a child he did not have a commitment with any adult figure, due to the attrocities of the slave auction. He has always been shifted from one place to another, so as an adult it is not surprising to find that he cannot fully commit to a woman as a mate (as he wishes that he could faithfully do with Seth). His inequality is two-fold as well, I suppose. He is unable to find equality with other men (Black & White, view his jealousy in regards to both Halle and Sixto...he wishes that he could be the type of men that they were, as if he is inferior to them in addition to the white men). He also cannot pledge equality with the concept of what a real man is: hence, having a sexual relationship with Beloved, in the home of Seth, under the suspicion that Beloved is somehow relatively connected to Seth).

Thu Sep 17 20:36:25 PDT 1998

Elise Baer baer002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. "Beloved" is the reincarnated daughter of Sethe, who chose to murder her daughter before she would grow up to learn that the world she was brought into was a horrible place at that time. 2. The dedication to "sixty million" is used as a reference showing an atrosity with an unfathomable number of 'slaves' who were not given any 'rights'. 3. The 'slaves' had ties but that was to their owners, there was no haven or real safe place except their 'lot' of being owned. Maybe that is why Denver never left the house because she felt safe there, living in her own world. The right to 'choose' gives us freedom both physically and spirutually however minute the experience. Sethes physical freedom was taken by being raped leaving her emotional freedom in shambles. This pertained to all slaves, they all were imprisoned emotionally and physically although Home Sweet Home and places like were mere 'holding tanks' in their quest for 'freedom'. 4. Sethe's quest for freedom was embodied in the 'death' of "Beloved" through this 'act' she had control over the destiny this life. And in taking this life she might have believed she was saving her daughter. If I were to reflect on the term 'equality' versus 'inequality' on who suffered more either Sethe or Paul D, I would look to Morrison's writing, "the tree shaped scar on Sethe's back" symboling her 'sorrow' a growth in her soul or a 'branding' of sorts or Paul D who lived in a world of physical abuse but on a different level. As a man he was subjected to physical labor, beatings, working long hours, even being imprisoned, which surely wore on his soul, coupled with the mental anguish of being a slave. Neither had 'freedom' of any sort so there is not an ounce of difference in the suffering they experienced. Those 'dark days' of slavery are in the past but are brought to light with stories such as "Beloved" where we merely glimpse into one of those "sixty million" lives.

Thu Sep 17 20:36:38 PDT 1998

Elise Baer baer002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. "Beloved" is the reincarnated daughter of Sethe, who chose to murder her daughter before she would grow up to learn that the world she was brought into was a horrible place at that time. 2. The dedication to "sixty million" is used as a reference showing an atrosity with an unfathomable number of 'slaves' who were not given any 'rights'. 3. The 'slaves' had ties but that was to their owners, there was no haven or real safe place except their 'lot' of being owned. Maybe that is why Denver never left the house because she felt safe there, living in her own world. The right to 'choose' gives us freedom both physically and spirutually however minute the experience. Sethes physical freedom was taken by being raped leaving her emotional freedom in shambles. This pertained to all slaves, they all were imprisoned emotionally and physically although Home Sweet Home and places like were mere 'holding tanks' in their quest for 'freedom'. 4. Sethe's quest for freedom was embodied in the 'death' of "Beloved" through this 'act' she had control over the destiny this life. And in taking this life she might have believed she was saving her daughter. If I were to reflect on the term 'equality' versus 'inequality' on who suffered more either Sethe or Paul D, I would look to Morrison's writing, "the tree shaped scar on Sethe's back" symboling her 'sorrow' a growth in her soul or a 'branding' of sorts or Paul D who lived in a world of physical abuse but on a different level. As a man he was subjected to physical labor, beatings, working long hours, even being imprisoned, which surely wore on his soul, coupled with the mental anguish of being a slave. Neither had 'freedom' of any sort so there is not an ounce of difference in the suffering they experienced. Those 'dark days' of slavery are in the past but are brought to light with stories such as "Beloved" where we merely glimpse into one of those "sixty million" lives.

Thu Sep 17 20:36:46 PDT 1998

Elise Baer baer002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. "Beloved" is the reincarnated daughter of Sethe, who chose to murder her daughter before she would grow up to learn that the world she was brought into was a horrible place at that time. 2. The dedication to "sixty million" is used as a reference showing an atrosity with an unfathomable number of 'slaves' who were not given any 'rights'. 3. The 'slaves' had ties but that was to their owners, there was no haven or real safe place except their 'lot' of being owned. Maybe that is why Denver never left the house because she felt safe there, living in her own world. The right to 'choose' gives us freedom both physically and spirutually however minute the experience. Sethes physical freedom was taken by being raped leaving her emotional freedom in shambles. This pertained to all slaves, they all were imprisoned emotionally and physically although Home Sweet Home and places like were mere 'holding tanks' in their quest for 'freedom'. 4. Sethe's quest for freedom was embodied in the 'death' of "Beloved" through this 'act' she had control over the destiny this life. And in taking this life she might have believed she was saving her daughter. If I were to reflect on the term 'equality' versus 'inequality' on who suffered more either Sethe or Paul D, I would look to Morrison's writing, "the tree shaped scar on Sethe's back" symboling her 'sorrow' a growth in her soul or a 'branding' of sorts or Paul D who lived in a world of physical abuse but on a different level. As a man he was subjected to physical labor, beatings, working long hours, even being imprisoned, which surely wore on his soul, coupled with the mental anguish of being a slave. Neither had 'freedom' of any sort so there is not an ounce of difference in the suffering they experienced. Those 'dark days' of slavery are in the past but are brought to light with stories such as "Beloved" where we merely glimpse into one of those "sixty million" lives.

Thu Sep 17 20:37:40 PDT 1998

Elise Baer baer002@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. "Beloved" is the reincarnated daughter of Sethe, who chose to murder her daughter before she would grow up to learn that the world she was brought into was a horrible place at that time. 2. The dedication to "sixty million" is used as a reference showing an atrosity with an unfathomable number of 'slaves' who were not given any 'rights'. 3. The 'slaves' had ties but that was to their owners, there was no haven or real safe place except their 'lot' of being owned. Maybe that is why Denver never left the house because she felt safe there, living in her own world. The right to 'choose' gives us freedom both physically and spirutually however minute the experience. Sethes physical freedom was taken by being raped leaving her emotional freedom in shambles. This pertained to all slaves, they all were imprisoned emotionally and physically although Home Sweet Home and places like were mere 'holding tanks' in their quest for 'freedom'. 4. Sethe's quest for freedom was embodied in the 'death' of "Beloved" through this 'act' she had control over the destiny this life. And in taking this life she might have believed she was saving her daughter. If I were to reflect on the term 'equality' versus 'inequality' on who suffered more either Sethe or Paul D, I would look to Morrison's writing, "the tree shaped scar on Sethe's back" symboling her 'sorrow' a growth in her soul or a 'branding' of sorts or Paul D who lived in a world of physical abuse but on a different level. As a man he was subjected to physical labor, beatings, working long hours, even being imprisoned, which surely wore on his soul, coupled with the mental anguish of being a slave. Neither had 'freedom' of any sort so there is not an ounce of difference in the suffering they experienced. Those 'dark days' of slavery are in the past but are brought to light with stories such as "Beloved" where we merely glimpse into one of those "sixty million" lives.

Thu Sep 17 20:39:56 PDT 1998

therese baker tbaker@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

Dear SOC311 students: As many of you have seen, there were many, many interesting and thoughtful comments to the Salon2 questions on Beloved. You can see my elaborations to the questions on Salon3. Here I will take up a few points from your comments. Many of you rejected the idea that slavery was an extreme form of inequality. But it was a social institution that operated on the belief (and the power to enforce this belief) that certain humans were completely unequal to other humans. What Paul D and Sethe hated so much about slavery was this unequal treatment--they could have no rights, no security, no possible grounds for any kind of fair treatment in comparison to white human beings. So even though the Garners were basically more "kind" and less "cruel" whites than Schoolteacher, this did not really improve the position of the slaves at Sweet Home who were just as low in status and in rights (just as unequal to whites) as slaves were on the cruelest plantation. What this story addresses is how extreme social inequality can destroy individual identity (a human's psychological state). This is a very sociological position because it shows how the level of one's social position (one's equality or inequality) can virtually determine who a person can be, what they can feel, what they can claim. The part of Sethe and Paul D. that enabled them to escape, that gave them the strength to escape was in some sense their drive, their quest for equal and just places in a social order that would grant them some fair position. This is certainly not how we think of equality or inequality now. We tend not to relate it to psychological strengths or weaknesses. But one's social status is deeply tied up with one's identity, one's sense of self, one's feelings of security. I agree that this is a powerful book-- I hope it hurt a bit to read it, as I wanted us to begin with the pain of inequality as it would be most deeply experienced. TLB

Sun Sep 20 19:18:25 PDT 1998

Sara Rivera sarariv@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved is the daughter that Sethe murders in a moment of panic and desperate anguish when school teacher and his son come to take her and her children back to slavery,hell, sweet home. 1 B. Beloved is an enigmatic, symbolic representation of the struggle of the human spirit for self identity, compassion, love, loss and sorrow under the cruelest form of tyranny - slavery. 2. "Sixty Million and more" refers to all the loss of life brought about by slavery. 3. Inequality under slavery meant absolutely no rights! It meant that you were treated no better than livestock and even worse, because animals don't reason but human beings do. The institution of slavery was the most savage attack on the human spirit! You were property, sub-human and therefore it was o.k. to split up your family. The concept of family ties was not sacred when it came to slavery. For a slave it was taboo and dangerous to love or get too close to anything or anyone for one never knew when this to would be yanked away and obliterate your heart. This was a common experience shared by Baby Suggs, Sethe and Paul D. 4. I don't believe the driving force for Sethe and Paul D was equality but rather survival. For how could they know what equality was if they had never lived it! They had an idea of what equality was suppose to be, but never experienced it. I believe the driving force was the need to ease the emotional & psychological pain in an attempt to rescue the left over remnants of the self. As far as how inequality was experienced from a male or female perspective, I would say that it was worse for women for they were treated as breeding animals thereby, increasing the number of slaves increased the masters wealth. They had to have sex with whomever the master decreed. They were raped and treated as sex slaves for the masters and his kin. So althought the atrocities committed on both genders were barbaric, women by their nature had the worse end of the stick. For example, Paul D talks about how his worth was only $900 as opposed to Sethe who was more valuable because she could reproduce. But, for Sethe the fact that she could reproduce was the source of her hell - protecting her children at all cost became central to her existence. Ella on the other hand tells of how she lost her bottom teeth and had scars as thick as ropes around her waist because she refused to nurse what she reffered to as "a hairy white thing, fathered by the lowest yet" (pp. 258-259). The grown up beloved appears to be the girl that had been kept locked up by a whiteman since she was a little girl. So yes, I think it was worse for women, her reproductive nature opened her up to more extreme forms of abuse both, physically and psychologically.

Sun Sep 20 19:18:35 PDT 1998

Sara Rivera sarariv@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved is the daughter that Sethe murders in a moment of panic and desperate anguish when school teacher and his son come to take her and her children back to slavery,hell, sweet home. 1 B. Beloved is an enigmatic, symbolic representation of the struggle of the human spirit for self identity, compassion, love, loss and sorrow under the cruelest form of tyranny - slavery. 2. "Sixty Million and more" refers to all the loss of life brought about by slavery. 3. Inequality under slavery meant absolutely no rights! It meant that you were treated no better than livestock and even worse, because animals don't reason but human beings do. The institution of slavery was the most savage attack on the human spirit! You were property, sub-human and therefore it was o.k. to split up your family. The concept of family ties was not sacred when it came to slavery. For a slave it was taboo and dangerous to love or get too close to anything or anyone for one never knew when this to would be yanked away and obliterate your heart. This was a common experience shared by Baby Suggs, Sethe and Paul D. 4. I don't believe the driving force for Sethe and Paul D was equality but rather survival. For how could they know what equality was if they had never lived it! They had an idea of what equality was suppose to be, but never experienced it. I believe the driving force was the need to ease the emotional & psychological pain in an attempt to rescue the left over remnants of the self. As far as how inequality was experienced from a male or female perspective, I would say that it was worse for women for they were treated as breeding animals thereby, increasing the number of slaves increased the masters wealth. They had to have sex with whomever the master decreed. They were raped and treated as sex slaves for the masters and his kin. So althought the atrocities committed on both genders were barbaric, women by their nature had the worse end of the stick. For example, Paul D talks about how his worth was only $900 as opposed to Sethe who was more valuable because she could reproduce. But, for Sethe the fact that she could reproduce was the source of her hell - protecting her children at all cost became central to her existence. Ella on the other hand tells of how she lost her bottom teeth and had scars as thick as ropes around her waist because she refused to nurse what she reffered to as "a hairy white thing, fathered by the lowest yet" (pp. 258-259). The grown up beloved appears to be the girl that had been kept locked up by a whiteman since she was a little girl. So yes, I think it was worse for women, her reproductive nature opened her up to more extreme forms of abuse both, physically and psychologically.

Sun Sep 20 19:22:48 PDT 1998

Sara Rivera sarariv@mailhost1.csusm.edu responded:

1. Beloved is the daughter that Sethe murders in a moment of panic and desperate anguish when school teacher and his son come to take her and her children back to slavery,hell, sweet home. 1 B. Beloved is an enigmatic, symbolic representation of the struggle of the human spirit for self identity, compassion, love, loss and sorrow under the cruelest form of tyranny - slavery. 2. "Sixty Million and more" refers to all the loss of life brought about by slavery. 3. Inequality under slavery meant absolutely no rights! It meant that you were treated no better than livestock and even worse, because animals don't reason but human beings do. The institution of slavery was the most savage attack on the human spirit! You were property, sub-human and therefore it was o.k. to split up your family. The concept of family ties was not sacred when it came to slavery. For a slave it was taboo and dangerous to love or get too close to anything or anyone for one never knew when this to would be yanked away and obliterate your heart. This was a common experience shared by Baby Suggs, Sethe and Paul D. 4. I don't believe the driving force for Sethe and Paul D was equality but rather survival. For how could they know what equality was if they had never lived it! They had an idea of what equality was suppose to be, but never experienced it. I believe the driving force was the need to ease the emotional & psychological pain in an attempt to rescue the left over remnants of the self. As far as how inequality was experienced from a male or female perspective, I would say that it was worse for women for they were treated as breeding animals thereby, increasing the number of slaves increased the masters wealth. They had to have sex with whomever the master decreed. They were raped and treated as sex slaves for the masters and his kin. So althought the atrocities committed on both genders were barbaric, women by their nature had the worse end of the stick. For example, Paul D talks about how his worth was only $900 as opposed to Sethe who was more valuable because she could reproduce. But, for Sethe the fact that she could reproduce was the source of her hell - protecting her children at all cost became central to her existence. Ella on the other hand tells of how she lost her bottom teeth and had scars as thick as ropes around her waist because she refused to nurse what she reffered to as "a hairy white thing, fathered by the lowest yet" (pp. 258-259). The grown up beloved appears to be the girl that had been kept locked up by a whiteman since she was a little girl. So yes, I think it was worse for women, her reproductive nature opened her up to more extreme forms of abuse both, physically and psychologically.

Thu Sep 24 01:17:00 PDT 1998

Mark Angelo Ware markaware@aol.com responded:

1. In the book who is Beloved? What does she represent? I feel that the author has left the character of Beloved an open interpretation for the reader. The fact that the character is not fully formed was purposely done to give us the ability to make our own determination. To Denver, Beloved became many things. She was that Sister that she never knew. Denver was very protective of her Beloved (sister). But Denver also had an inert fear of Beloved as well. She saw Beloved (or did she) attempt to strangle her mother. She seemed to disappear and reaper at certain times, evoking fear in Denver. To Paul D, beloved was a hindrance and a mystery. He could not figure her out! He wanted her out of the house. Did he have a relationship with beloved, did she seduce him? To Seth, Beloved was a consolation. Maybe she was the dead daughter reincarnated. Maybe she represented the opportunity for Seth to give the life to her lost daughter the she could not under the other circumstances. Beloved was the essence of grace, an outlet for all of those living at 124. 2. What do you think the dedication at the beginning of the book: "Sixty Million and more" refers to? After reading the book "From Slavery to Freedom" it is clear that it is unknown exactly how many slaves were effected by the slave trade. But one thing is certain. More than half of the slaves captured for the slave trade did not make it to their finally destinations. Some committed suicide some died from sickness and disease. In 1969, Philip D. Curtin placed the estimate of those sold into the slave trade well above nine million. In 1861 Edward E. Dunbar estimated that twelve million slaves wee imported. While in 1936 R.R. Kuczynski estimated that fourteen million Africans were imported. These figures only apply to slaves shipped to the New World, not the other parts of the globe. I feel that Morrison's dedication is referring to her estimate of the sum total of Africans who were lost at sea, sold into slavery, and/or died from disease, not only in the New World, but world wide! 3. What did "inequality" under slavery mean? Think about the institution of slavery--how it affected other social institutions, its impact on "rights," on human emotions and ties, on property. The Post-Reconstruction period was a tremendous period for Black Americans. The victory of the North in the American Civil War ended slavery and, also, ended the South's effort to secede from the Union. However, for more than a decade after the Civil War the status of the liberated slaves and the terms on which the defeated states would be restored to the Union--that is, the way in which the South and the Union would be reconstructed--remained a source of conflict. During this period, blacks obtained some rights afforded to citizens by the United States Constitution. Most Southerners took issue with blacks being considered their equals under the law. During the years that the Civil War settlement continued to be contested, are known as the Reconstruction period. Reconstruction lasted roughly from the end of the war in April 1865 to the withdrawal of the last federal troops from the South in April of 1877. The withdrawal of the troops marked the beginnings of the Post-Reconstruction period. The withdrawal of the troops also signified an unfortunate reality; it ended the protection for blacks from the wrath of the individuals who did not agree with the abolition of slavery-thus suborning inequality for blacks. The period after Reconstruction saw all the gains and progress that blacks made towards equality abruptly come to an end, racial bigotry, again, won over good. This period saw many people of color subjected to the most inhumane torture and punishment unimaginable to modern humanity. The treatment blacks received during this period were overt and severe. During this period, lynchings were more prevalent than any time in history. It is very hard to understand how individuals could inflict so many atrocities, physical and mental abuse on another human being without any remorse. Trying to understand this Post-Reconstruction terror, a person of strong ethic morals would have to come to the conclusion that this situation had no basis for legitimacy what so ever: racism can never be justified. Perhaps more than any other single factor, the failure of Reconstruction to provide land for the ex-slave contributed to their loss of political power and their continued status as economically dependent people. Just as the failure of the United States to rid itself of slavery paved the way for civil war, so has its failure to solve the problems and maintain the gains of Reconstruction led directly to the race problems of today. 4. How far is the quest of "equality" a primary driving force for Sethe and for Paul D? Was inequality under slavery experienced similarly by Sethe (as a woman) and by Paul D. (as a man)? Equality? -I don't really feel that they thought there could be such a thing as "equality." I feel they were searching for something better. A better way of life with out the harsh treatment they experienced at "Sweet Home." Knowing that things would not scene of serenity regarding equality, but that nothing could be worse than what they were experiencing in there current environment. The quest for this better place came with great risk. Seth risk not only her own life, but the life of her unborn, then born, child while she searched for a better place. Paul D also put his life in great danger. Both of these individuals felt that the risk of being hunted down and sold back into there former situations, the risk of being killed, were outweighed by this quest of "equality." As history has proved, and as so in this novel, Black males always face more harsh treatment than his female counterpart. I feel that if Mrs. Denver (the lady that helped Seth deliver the baby) would have ran into Paul D in the brush, he would not have made it to Ohio. Seth was treated surprisingly humane by this lady. Remember how Paul D and the others were caged like animals, while it rained, and mudslides entered the cages were they spent their nights. Although treatment for both genders in their own right were atrocious.